08-11-06 Negotiation meeting coming soon. I am sure caring Karen has our families best interest at heart. Is she really that evil or is it just the gangly puppet master making her dance? Regardless, we are out saving lives and they are getting paid a heck of a lot more money than any of us by just trying to make our lives more miserable. Go figure !!
08-16-06 This just in! Hillsborough Commissioners voting on a 7% raise this year 5% next year for the firefighters. Get your applications filled out.
08-16-06 Both the City Council and Rick Baker ignore their obligation to make sure that Public Safety comes first when serving as elected officials. With the predicted and actual increase in hurricane activity and the increased need to prepare to respond or assist in responding to terrorists' threats (imagine an attack at MacDill or Tampa International Airport) where a coordinated disaster response from all Tampa Bay area first responders would be critical to save life and property, it boggles the mind that the City does not have a contract with these critical city employees executed yet. They certainly have demonstrated nothing that shows me that any of them aren't entitled to their salary and benefit increases!
Kathleen Ford, Esq.
Thank you, Ms. Ford for taking an active interest in your Fire & Rescue personnel and noting also that we're very much an active part of the "bigger picture."
While this web site is not officially endorsed by the Saint Petersburg Association of Fire Fighters, the words that you read on it's pages are very much a reflection of the feelings of her membership.
Many who post their thoughts here have many years on the job, serving and protecting the citizens of a city that we dearly love. Never before have we realized such an adversarial relationship with the City of St. Petersburg. You, yourself sat on Council in years past when we found rocks in the road, but we always found a way to work around them. Looking back, could we ever have imagined that those 'rocks' would have turned into the machinations of organizational creep?
As of late, we have repeatedly found ourselves being stonewalled in our attempts at gaining a better benefits package by the Mayor's office, throughout what has become a nine-hundred day ordeal. As you are abundantly aware, the men and women of St. Petersburg Fire & Rescue will typically give their entire working lives to one employer. To now find us in the position we're in -- constantly embroiled in a game of tug-o-war with with Mayor Rick Baker's office and Human Relations - it's beginning to exact a toll. Sadly, we are now witnessing what our Brothers and Sisters of St. Petersburg Police Department have been living with for some time now - the slow death of a 'premium' public safety service, here in our own Fire & Rescue service. For the past few years we've been told in contract negotiations with the city that we weren't worthy of certain benefits because we don't have the 'retention' problem that SPPD has. Well, we too are starting to feel the sting. We're experiencing problems, both attracting and retaining Florida State Certified Fire Fighter Paramedics.
Much like an 'all hazards' insurance policy that you pay your hard earned money into over a long period of time - Fire, Rescue & Law Enforcement services can be considered a type of insurance policy, too. And with all things great and small, you get out of them what you put into them.
Throughout our history it has been the right of the citizenry to take city hall to task when they believe that their tax dollars are being ill spent. In recent years we've witnessed plenty of rhetoric dealing with privatizing those government services that government either can't or won't perform efficiently. One area where there seems to be little point of contention and the public very much wishes to maintain control - is in public safety. It is one of the vital areas of local government that history tells us, shouldn't be farmed out to private enterprise and it's profit motives.
The citizens of St. Petersburg want their safety and security ensured and the men and women of St. Petersburg Fire & Rescue would ask the same of her citizens.
Thanks again, Ms. Ford for your thoughtful consideration in addressing the Men and Women of St. Petersburg Fire & Rescue with your words of encouragement.
Us Vs. Them Webmaster
08-16-06 Thank you Kathleen for taking the time to read this site and also for posting on it. Your support for us has been constant. You have always supported us.... I wish we could say that we returned the favor. We chose to support "king richard", but that's where playing politics sometimes bites you in the ass. I know that it is a necessary evil. You have supported us on numerous issues over the past decade, and we supported the person who is now turning his back on us during such a critical time in our negotiations. Even if we have not shown it....
THANK YOU!!!
From a long time FORD fan.
08-19-06 When the webmaster says that the offer was -zero- does that mean it's a new offer of -zero-, as in 0-0-0, or does it mean the city offer was "zero change" from 3-3-3?
Webmaster: Thanks for making the point! I might have used "0" inappropriately. Zero change from the last offer is correct. Although it wouldn't be a stretch to say that we're being treated with "0" respect at the table!
Please, everyone... go to the FPF new user registration page and REGISTER! Your application will be dealt with quickly (there may be no reply) and logging in at your next visit will allow you entry to the 'downloads' page where you'll find information on how your Brothers and Sisters in other organizations around the state are being compensated. If you thought SPAFF's latest offer to the city was an eye opener, you'll be dismayed to note that there are many smaller cities around the state that pay their Professional Fire Fighters and Fire Fighter Paramedics in a manner conistent with the belief that,
"PROFESSIONAL FIRE FIGHTERS PROVIDE THE HEAVY LIFTING - KEEPING HEAD'S, WHEN EVERYONE ELSE AROUND THEM IS LOSING THEIRS!"
08-19-06 Just one other question.... did the city call the meeting or did the firefighters call the meeting?
Webmaster: I'm of the belief that 'we' called to meet on several occasions. In the time between the February and July meetings, we paid for and received the very same actuarial information on a proposed COLA that the city ritualistically refused to provide us. Once we came up with the our actuarial's numbers, the city was then compelled to get off of their dead arse and do their due diligence. If you hadn't noticed --- St. Petersburg's administration is very hostile towards it's Public Safety Professionals, providing the least amount of help over the longest period of time possible. If it were any other entity being dealt with in this manner by the city, heads would be rolling!
08-19-06 I am still in shock! First I am in shock at the BOLD, NEW, and INNOVATIVE pay plan presented at the negotiations table Thursday. This is the plan we have long deserved and the one that will help to bring some of the desideratum our Department so badly needs. Not only will the pay but the addition of another R-day, will give this dept a chance at keeping some of our Rabbits from looking for greener pastures. If this city is not going to improve our pension plans then at least the additional pay will allow each of us the opportunity to provide a supplement to our pensions.
NOW, I am also in shock at what I am hearing from some VERY CONFUSED members that somehow believe that:
#1 we don't deserve this new pay plan,
#2 somehow can't fathom how this city can afford this pay plan, and
#3 at least one of these nay-sayers supposedly sits on our side of the table.
Hey! Get over the thought that the city can't or won't do something. This pay plan will just now bring us in line with Tampa and Orlando departments. I thought we were all in agreement that we deserve to be compared with cities of comparable size! Well this IS what those dept's are getting now and that is what we want. Thats right you read it correctly Fire Fighters as close as Tampa and Orlando already make what we now have on the table. I ask, "What's wrong with that?" Quit telling the bean counters we don't need this pay proposal, I don't know where you live, but in the past 2 years my home insurance has gone up $2,300.00 dollars. It now takes $50.00 to fill the same gas tank that took $25.00, 2 years ago and I remember almost everything that I have purchased in the past 2 years has had dramatic cost increases added. Hell, I paid $2.79 for a friggin' bag of ice last weekend that cost $1.79 just last year. I can't figure how someone can say we don't deserve or need this.
I hope some of you can reply to this post and attempt to let me in on your secret. It is time that this entire department unites and stands as one to let this city know this is the pay plan that will get us back to the department that people want to come to, to start their new careers. Lets all Thank the bargaining team for presenting this new beginning.
08-20-06 "I'm in shock!" That's because you are smart and follow things. The people complaining are the one's that fall under "igorance is bliss." I have heard quite a few people complaining that we were "asking for too much" and "we'll never get that." Well the City does not care about anybody but themselves and if we don't ask for ALL of what we want then we will never know, will we? Besides they can more than afford it and figure probably they will just break us down until we give in. The Union is doing a great job and because they do not tell what they are doing all the time people get confused and mad and mistake it as them doing a poor job. Why would you want to put all your cards out on the table for everyone to see, especially a firefighter. You have waited this long, just be patient!
08-20-06 "I got over it!"
"The Union is doing a great job and because they do not tell what they are doing all the time people get confused and mad and mistake it as them doing a poor job."
I think you're both, spot-on, bro's. Not to be left out... Each and every one of us should share in a little bit of that 'thanks'. This organization can't possibly run on it's own and the principal officers can't do it alone, either. If you've been around the union hall lately, you'll notice that political signs are being constructed and shot out the door and onto people's lawns as fast as we can make them. This is by far one of the most productive political season's that I've witnessed, yet!
The bidness...
For as long as I can remember we've all been fed the same bullshit. They started years ago with "you can't compare yourselves to this city or that city, because the money is different, blah blah blah!" Well, I think we can put that to rest right now!
The once sleepy little town with the green benches where everyone went to retire is no more! St. Petersburg has grown up, but I'm not sure that it's grown into the ideal place to grow a family. The mayor is either deaf, dumb and blind or he's the biggest political hack we've ever come to know. The murder rate can only go down (but it's not). The cops have to buy their own rifles. They were the last to get Tasers. Every other officer in their management is a Judas who'll right up their men and women in a NY minute. The Sgt.'s order their patrol units to break off of pursuits. It's got to be just a wee bit demoralizing to know that on a good day, our police officers try to run the bad guys into the county where they know the Sheriff's Office will actually enforce the law.
We can't keep Paramedics employed or even do a decent job of attracting new candidates. Our dept. is further hampered by this cheapskate mayor's attempt to trim EVERYONE'S budget over the last several years. We're still behind in our funding because of this clown. If it's an experiment to prove that we can all operate, even at a reduced budget then he's right! The trouble is you can't go on forever with not properly funding your FD and your PD! They may be consequences later on down the road! Heh!
It's his opinion that if the COUNTY doesn't throw more money at our EMS division, then he'll not do a damned thing to fix any of the problems that the division is currently facing. End result - you burn your Medics out of a hostile system! And from everything I read here and everyone that I talk to on the job, there's more than meets the eye going on when we can't get this city to touch our pension and benefits package. In this city the Human being is the last 'item' considered for preventive maintenance!
Our apparatus isn't being cared for in the way that it should, either. We just about wait for self destruction to occur before something is done. Is it any wonder? The city won't spend the first dime to send "it's" mechanics to specialized schools to work on EMERGENCY VEHICLES!!! We SHOULD be farming our EMERGENCY VEHICLE repairs out to any place that's willing to certify their mechanics as capable of understanding that these aren't buses or dump trucks or garbage trucks that they're working on. They're LIFE SAVERS!
How many of you can pull the dash clean out of your rescue truck, because MMD won't put the damned screws back in? How many air conditioning units are just barely hanging on? Oh yeah - A/C... It don't get you to the call, so you don't need it. Yeah, well it gets 'me' to the call and in 90 degree weather and 90% humidity if it's good enough for the rest of the population, it should be good enough for all of us that are called out to 'fix' all of the rest of the populations's ills! How many grease fittings on your aerial have the original dirt on them because they've never seen the grease gun? Is anyone looking besides us? If it weren't for jake brakes, half of our Engines wouldn't stop at intersections. Ask any of the mechanics at MMD - they'll tell you that the brakes automatically adjust themselves! Yeah, okay, sure, whatever, pardon je!
Thank God for Rob Edwards! They don't necessarily love him in the training division, but that's because he's normal. He a guy who won't stick you in the ass! He's needed there to protect you and I from being killed in the shitboxes they keep throwing back at us. They don't like him because he won't sweep repairs under the carpet because his incompetent boss is scaaaaaaaared to make waves! Back off, GL. You've got the job and the Peter Principal says that you get to keep it!
How many of you want to take a ride in Truck 4 when this is all said and done if they decide to do a little cutting and a little welding - only? Not me!
We work in the fourth largest city in the state. It's about time someone (other than us) took a look at the situation we're in and made it right. The last couple of days I've heard scuttlebutt that our good mayor (a city park on every corner) is 'down the road' if Charley Crist becomes Governor. Good! Get stepping fool. You've done great things for people wishing to visit multiple dog parks in this city. The dog lovers thank you! The trouble is, you've done nothing for our Fire Dept. or Police Dept. - which means you've done nothing much to protect the taxpayers and the people who visit of our city.
If we continue picketing for the next few years on the steps of City Hall, Tropicana Field, Ribfest, the Pier, Museums etc., etc. I'll survive. We can continue to take 1 year contracts or none at all until someone actually figures out that we're telling the truth and taking in the shorts.
Put me in coach, I'm ready to play and I play hard!
08-22-06 I really don't care what those other departments have. I get to wear shorts and a tee shirt. Of course unlike the other departments, I can't risk looking unprofessional while working a CODE, so I have to wear my uniform shirt while going to and returning from the call, but the shorts are where it's at daddy-o!
08-22-06 I think shorts and a baby-blue, short-sleeve, button-up collared shirt are the most unprofessional looking ensemble we could have. It looks ridiculous. Put on some pants and cover those chicken legs.
08-22-06 It's a pisser, ain't it? One of the few items we've ever gotten out of this city that we didn't have to pay for. Look around you folks. Nearly everything we've ever gotten, we've had to pay a percentage for. The shorts we won on a bet and they're cheaper for the dept. to buy than pants!
Didn't catch your name 2nd 8-22. Chief what?
08-22-06 Mr. webmaster, thanks for reminding us about council and the mayor's big pay day. I'm still amazed that the city's negotiators can show up at the table and keep a straight face. Asshats!
TEAM: You're welcome. Our Union's President wants everyone to be constantly reminded that for the past several years, we've allowed the rest of the city to take a free ride on our back's. If you haven't heard him ask the question yet, "aren't you worth it?" you will.
08-22-06 My legs look pretty good. Anyway it is more comfortable lying around all day watching tv in shorts.
08-22-06 My name should be posted right next to yours. Oops, guess you forgot to type it in. When you call someone out for doing something, make sure your not doing it yourself. Just a tip.
08-23-06 I'm one of a few who attended the pension arbitration hearing today at the MSC building. The city's prime witness in their defense for surreptitiously changing our pension plan to reflect a 'named individual only' as beneficiary was none other than our former labor relations "Ice Princess" - Julie Upman. As big a pain in the ass as Julie could be, hearing her repeatedly comment under oath as to the number of times that she had offered us options (that we'd end up paying for) to work around a given set of circumstances that we weren't pleased with - somehow seems surrealistic. A couple of us were taken aback by this as we realized that this in not currently part of Mayor 'Dick' Baker's bargaining plan. They never offer us anything and they stall for months with replies to both simple and complex inquiries!
We're witnessing the 'shelving' of an entire public safety workforce in this city, folks!
08-23-06 Dear shorts hater.
I guess playing with a Rubik's cube looks better when wearing long pants? Hell, at least HQ can secure their building. We don't have that same comfort at the stations. Every chief, inspector, shop, and light duty person can get into our "homes." Plus they come back with all the latest idiot ideas that another department has perpetrated upon their folks and without even asking "what do you think about it" they stick it on us to make "their" "idea" work.
Give me shorts and tell the idiots to stay away. When I want to see people at HQ, I'll go see the ones I want and leave. If it was not my intent to see you, I won't force my way into your office and hang around to drink your coffee and eat your ice cream.
TEAM: Sorry to hear that Bro'/Sis. A CISD StrikeTeam has been dispatched to your location. Hang in there. We're coming for ya!
08-27-06 AMEN 8/23 #2 - Will call them when we need them!!!!!!!
08-28-06 Did we ever get a response from the city when Winnie gave them our latest proposal?
08-28-06 To the 8/28 post: Do you mean a response other than the confused look on her face at the table?
08-28-06 She made an armpit fart, shot us a bird and yelled "The mayor said up yours mutha's!"
08-29-06 She asked, "where can she get a bag of cheesy poofs?"
08-29-06 Stop....stop....I'm laughing so hard I can hardly type. This isn't a negotiations meeting it's a local "America's Got Talent" audition. I'll bet she can play the spoons on her forehead too. So help me, it would almost be worth the trip down there to see the next chapter. I'll bring some of the guys with me. We all like a good laugh. Glad to see the members can still find humor in at least some of this mess. And could someone please video tape the meeting on the 8th? I wanna submit it to America's Funniest Videos. I mean where else can you see a grown woman who is supposed to be representing the politicians and citizens of our great city with her mouth all smeared with orange food coloring and sucking on a very large cheesy poof? At the same time she tap dances to the tune of "Tea for Two" provided by her own armpit farts. I can use the ten grand and it would give the rest of the world a chance to see the mentality of the leadership of the People's Republic of St. Petersburg. And have Winnie take a real close look at her forehead and see if there's any indication of improvement with the spoons.
08-31-06 I am curious. What happens after this meeting on 9-9? What if the city says that this is not their best offer. Do we go to city council anyway or do we coutinue to go in circles.
TEAM: We'll keep meeting and negotiating in good faith, up until the time you hear the following words:
City - "That is our best and final offer."
Union - "That's not good enough, we declare impasse!"
09-01-06 Meanwhile, we are another year behind on pay. Its ok, life is easy on a McDonalds salary.
09-02-06 Hey 8-31, come to a meeting, (Union or negotiation) and find out why we don't "just go to council". You will be amazingly surprised to find out there really are rules that must be followed. You will be even more surprised when you have to admit to yourself that you don't know everything.
09-03-06 I was over at my parents house yesterday for dinner and saw RP and JP on channel 15. They were at the city's first budget hearing and stood at the podium for all of us! Admittedly, I haven't seen that done since Mike Riley went after council for a pay raise for the retirees. I've got to believe it's probably far easier to stand up and speak AFTER you've retired, when they can't threaten you with anything!
JP said that in his 23 years on the job, he'd never seen anyone leave this job except for illness or retirement and that our Medics were hitting the road for better pay and benefits. He was right! This mayor is pulling the guts out of our department, just like that asshole fire chief and that asshole ctiy manager in Clearwater have done. RP said essentially the same thing and also brought up the fact that if you can't keep Medics, you're not going to attract them either. Bravo!!!!!!
I'm sure that when our Union President gets back from the International Convention, we're all going to get some marching orders to step up to that same podium. Start thinking about what you want to say, now!
If you see these guys - thank them. I wasn't there and neither were you, but they were being their Brothers & Sisters keepers!
FTM - KTF - DTRT - PTB&S - EGH!
09-03-06 Hey 9-02 I would rather get my information from the TEAM.
TEAM: We're all members of the TEAM and WE get our information by going to Union Meetings! When we don't see you there, you are missed!
09-04-06 I saw the deal on TV. Good job guys. How much of the time were they listening though? I heard a lot of muttering in the background from council with some of the things that you said. It appears that we might have caught them with their pants down on this. Do we really know how much information they're getting that's not being filtered by this bullshit mayor's office?
TEAM: When you say "...bullshit mayor's office" are you referring to the mayor or the mayor's office being bullshit?
09-04-06 I find it kind of ironic that the city is now bringing in 'so many' tax dollars that ad valorem taxes are now covering 90% of the police and fire budgets. Take a look at the chart at the top of this page. I looks to be some kind of record! Why then are they not looking to improve our situation when they have windfall numbers? I looks as if the council and the mayor made out okay with their pay raises!
TEAM: Good of you to notice, Bro/Sis. That chart was pulled from the city's '06 budget numbers and IS a record for that chart, meaning that in the past 12-13 year period the General Fund is currently being 'least' impacted by the Police and Fire Department's budgets.
So why then do our pension issues take a back seat? Why then does this Fire Dept. suffer from a technology time-lapse? We're still busting red lights while driving to heart attacks and structure fires using hand drawn maps from the 70's! Helloooooooooooooooo!!!
09-06-06 Just a reminder, particularly to medics, that there is more than one contract out there to be concerned about. For those of you interested in our county EMS contract, Chief Ward is looking for suggestions in regards to our agreement with Pinellas County.
I recently pointed out, and I am not the first to do so, that when our city signs an agreement with the county we are locking into an arrangement that allows supervision from an entity (the medical directors office) with whom we have no recourse. Theoretically, any new policy that comes from our medical directors office goes through a committee that has representation from the county's dozens of fire departments. The problem is that once these policies are implemented, we the employees have no contractural way to respond or grieve.
What we need is some sort of a window in our contract that opens directly to the medical directors office. Currently, both our department and the medical director are under contract to the same county. It makes sense that the two party's would have contactural access to each other, but we don't. The medical director can dictate how our fire department performs, but when they overstep their bounds, there is little we as employees can do to respond.
With this in mind, I highly recommend that all affected employees contact Chief Ward with your concerns about this one way arrangement. Winnie and I have spoken about this, as have Chief Ward and I, but without more interest from other members of this bargaining unit, I don't really see much happening to improve this arrangement. Please find the time to discuss this with our EMS office.
Thanks,
Dave Fraser
TEAM: Thanks Dave.
09-08-06 Whilst sitting in on the meeting this morning I thought it strange that Karen Richardson(?) was being so polite and downright giddy. Deep in my primordial brain the suspicious side said "Warning Will Robinson, they're going to stick it in your bung-hole any second now!" Unfortunately I was correct. It was refreshing to see Winnie admonish her for her lack of input on our pay. I have been writing to Baker after every meeting. I would encourage everyone to do so if for nothing else than to say 'We're paying attention.'
Great turnout!
P. Knuckey
09-08-06 I hope that the rest of the 20 some members in attendance heard the plethora of lies that spewed forth from the mouth of Ms. Richardson Friday. And the worst part is, I believe that she fully believes what she is saying. When will the two bookends that sit on each side of her finally speak up? I was always taught that being part of a lie is just as bad as speaking the lie. I don't know of any religious group or Sect that see's it differently. Can one of our beloved tell us how this works in their respectable lives. If I am expected to respect a superior officer I need to know that he is worthy of such respect. It is time to speak up for your troops or you will soon find yourselves standing out in the cold. Remember, we only have to stand when you enter a room. Once we are up we can commence walking to the crapper where we can at least take part in something productive, and upon completion know that we accomplished an important task. Oh the pain.....
09-10-06 There’s nothing left to be said. There’s plenty left to be done. This is the saddest and most offensive period in the history of this local. Never before has the leadership of the local allowed us to look like fools for such a long period of time. And that’s exactly what we look like. All this time has passed and we still sit at square one. Maybe next meeting we can discuss the Preamble and the date and time for the next meeting.
I’ve tried to be supportive in my thinking and my actions. I’ve tried to have positive thoughts as to when the whole mess would be finished. I’ve even convinced myself that so far the right actions were being made by the union. I’ve been wrong. I’ve been patient and tried to be understanding when the union fell on it’s sword meeting after meeting with the city humps. But this is the last straw. To bark at the dumb hump across the table, be it male or female, is not going to win us a new contract. It’s a waste of time. So don’t be misled that this will win the fight for us. Winnie can bark ‘till he’s blue in the face and nothing will change. If that’s what you think will get the city’s attention then you’re sadly mistaken. It’s all macho and “in your face” to give the hump crap but it’ll gain nothing in the long run. Other than testosterone praise from the members who just don’t get it.
I know I’ve been the one who cautioned against “biting ourselves”. I would still do that. But in the history of this local there has never been a situation like the one facing us right now. And how did we get here? We got here by letting the city walk up our backs over and over. What makes any of us think that the negotiating process is any different now than it was for the past 40 years? The process itself is clearly laid out in the law. And if the law is followed then the process will work. Unfortunately the process has been watered down with cocktail parties and covert agreements with the opposition. Before you get all pissy……did we agree to quietly hold off our activities until after the election? Did we not endorse the asshole that now gives the city bargaining humps their directions? Does it seem that this was the smartest moves we could have made? And why did you all go for it in the first place? Makes one wonder if there weren’t any other things we agreed to that we don’t even know about.
This mess has been going on way too long. It’s time to take a hard look at just what the hell the thinking is in regard to a plan to win. Three meetings in the last three months and the city is offering less now than when we started. Can you really call this collective bargaining. And please don’t drag out that old bag of crap about how we bargain in good faith and don’t want to be seen as the bad guys. When it comes to bargaining in good faith we’re the only ones doing it. And don’t drag out that other bag of crap about how Winnie has a plan and even though he can’t tell us what it is it’s still a great plan. Enough smoke and mirrors. Show us something constructive.
I know I’m no longer there in person or on the job as such. And I don’t get involved with the day to day b-s at the stations. I only know what I’m told by other fire fighters and what I read on the website. The station house b-s will only take you so far and the rest you have to recognize for yourself. Anyone who takes the time to read this website knows that there’s only one section that should be taken seriously and that’s “contract”. The rest is cannon fodder. But now that we’ve gotten some money for a two year old contract and the removal of the SS offset the majority of you have gone to sleep and have no interest in what’s going on. It’s actually too bad that the law says that the employer must maintain the status quo during the time of negotiations. Maybe if you didn’t have it so good and most of those benefits you enjoy were taken away every October 2nd you’d have a little more desire to get off your ass and help. The next meeting, if there is one, will be business as usual and more of the same. We’ll hang our heads and walk out like the good little scapegoats we are and tell each other how tough the team is and how Winnie’s got a plan to win in the long run. Wanna bet your next pay check on it?
Fraternally, and fed up
Dick Tully
09-10-06 Maybe that will wake some people up Dick,but I wouldnt hold my breath. The bottom line on anyones job performance is results. Our leaders have produced what in the last 2 years? A 4% raise a year and a half late that had eroaded to equal the purchasing power of 2.9 % by the time we got it. A year behind on the current raise,I guess working on another year and a half. Boy,we really are screwing the city. I dont know about you but my family could have used that 5% I would have gotten this OCT and the 6% next OCT. Instead we wait for the pie in the sky from the secret plan. If this was a politician that pulled this crap would you leave them in office.Results guys, if we dont get them let someone else try.
09-11-06 Second 9-10 - Thanks for your thoughts, R.F... Personally, I'll continue to fight for what's mine rather than accept what the MUTTS want to give me!
FTM and FTFino's!
09-11-06 To the "I wanna raise and I want it now, guy." If it were all about pay, then perhaps you'd be right. Considering the fact that we're not in charge of EVERYTHING in this world, sometimes you have to work at getting what you want. Nobody's going to give us what Hillsborough's got or Tampa's got or Orlando's got without a fight. I'll give up the next 5% or 6% if there's a COLA in the lineup. Quit looking at pay raises. Unless this city is in some kind of crisis with money (they're not) you're almost always assured of some kind of a pay raise. What you can't rely on is a second R Day, a COLA, something better than a 3% multiplyer, etc... Those of you who want your pay raise now, please form a line at the city's "crying" window. When WE get our COLA and extra R Day - YOU can bargain for those on your own. I won't be there to help you but I'll throw you a crying towel!
09-11-06 Don't hold your breath...I'd be willing to bet NOTHING will happen until after the Nov. election and big bird is appointed to Gov. Crist's cabinet.
09-11-06 Hey dick stay retired and off the site. Picketing does not do a damn thing. Nobody is quiting so why should the city give a rats ass. We cried wolf last time with impasse and never filed the papers so who knows what to do? Your ranting and raving does not help.
09-11-06 The President is a joke and the sooner all of us realize that the better off we will be......
09-11-06 It takes a giant set of nuts (NOT!) to jam on a retired union president and a current union president, when all we know for sure about 'you' is the fact that you didn't sign your name and may never have ever done a single thing for this Local and that would include your last couple of posts! It's far better to face your wife and kids and say that we've tried - rather than take the typical city of St. Pete handout!
Up yours, my brother!
09-11-06 To the latest group of whiners... What presidential ballot did I see your name on? Give it a try sometime. To the retired shit stirrer, go away, we surely aren't enjoying R-days, a 3% per year/100% pension benefit, or the relief of not having a social security offset because of ANYTHING you ever did while at the helm. However, we DO have the most stringent MANAGEMENT RIGHTS article in the entire STATE of Florida, we still cant get our premium pays or overtime earnings included into our pensions, and we still have a very expensive post employment health plan. And people like you still have to rely on the new generations to get you a raise. These and many other articles are leftovers from the past LEADERS like yourself who thought it was more important to get a 3/3/3% three year deal as quickly as possible so there would be more time to participate in volleyball, softball, and bed races. So say what you like about the current President and make all the insinuation's about possible side deals. Some of us are still around that know the Presidents of this organization have never been at the top of any list when it has come to negotiating. Yelling and pounding on the table didn't work for you and it wont work today. Unless you can make breaking kneecaps a common occurrence again then I don't think your generations bargaining style ever coming to much use.
09-12-06 I thought about it brother and you’re right. I will no longer post anything to this site and would hope that perhaps someone else will take my place and say all the things that you agree with. But before I go I want you to know that you and the guy that wants a COLA with another R day plus a larger multiplier will retire before you see that happen. You heard it first here. This local has become nothing more than sheep being led to the slaughter and you’re too brainwashed or too uneducated to see it. What you consider “ranting” would be better interpreted as direction. I “rant” to educate your dumb ass to facts that you are too lazy or too ignorant to work out for yourself. Don’t be offended brother as you are only one of many who go to work daily with tunnel vision and blind obedience.
Only the most foolish would make the statement “I'll give up the next 5% or 6% if there's a COLA in the lineup.” Oh really? Congratulations. It’s been 900 days trying to bargain for that. And failing 900 times. But I’ll bet with another 900 days and with someone like you leading us we’re sure to get it.
“Unless this city is in some kind of crisis with money (they're not) you're almost always assured of some kind of a pay raise.” What planet has this guy been living on for the past three or four years? If that was the case we wouldn’t need collective bargaining now, would we?
“If it were all about pay, then perhaps you'd be right.” If it’s not “all about pay” then what is it all about? You’re pay and a drop plan is what’s gonna make you able to live better that the average person now and after you retire. Even if the city DID give you a COLA it would be based on your PAY !!! The problem with you and those who think like you is that you just can’t get past your own personal conclusions.
You did your little picket thing and what was the result? Nothing !! You did your little “We’re going to impasse” thing and what happened. The papers never got filed !! You did your little political action crap and backed the lame duck mayor and spent a gob on a full page ad and what did that get you? He sends his hump to the table to laugh at your stupidity and bargain in bad faith, that’s what !!! The city has clearly committed numerous bad faith actions and what has the president done? Nothing !!!
Yet you and the rest of the members like you sit there and swallow the drivel at the meetings and never think to ask yourselves why it never changes. It’s the same spiel you got a year ago and a year before that and a year before that. And you don’t see a problem.
I’ll leave you and your imaginary friends to be the free thinkers and progressive minds of the future. I’ve always supported the local on and off the job and I’m probably the only retiree that still gives a shit what happens not only at the bargaining table but also in the pride that goes along with being a firefighter in the city of St. Petersburg. I gave four years of hard damn work to improve what Al Wilson had begun and so have a lot of other members. If I offend some of you I apologize but I have always called it right up front and I don’t plan on stopping now. You guys are headed down a crooked path and I wish you well.
Fraternally,
Dick Tully
09-12-06 It couldn't be that the ONLY thing that will benefit you out of our negotiation would be pay, could it Mr. Tully? Our COLA wouldn't effect you, our RDAY wouldn't effect you, our pension wouldn't effect you, but our pay could.
For years all I have heard from the senior guys is "improve the pension now, worry about pay latter". And they are right. God willing, we will be collecting our pension longer than we will be getting RDAY's or anything else. You are right that the pay raise has a direct effect on our pension, it does. But, if we keep putting off the pension issues, it will one day be too late for some. It is my thought that you are currently blinded by your own greed, because the only thing that could help you right now is a pay raise for us. Respectfully Mr. Tully, we don't negotiate for you, we negotiate for current members.
Mistakes have been made....by everyone. But, hopefully you can learn from those mistakes and move on and never make the same one again (like backing an asshole for a mayor that cares more about Yamalli Chimmichanga (I couldn't even guess good on that spelling) and keeping him happy, than he does about his own FD or PD). Shame on that BIG BIRD MOTHER F***ER!!!
Keep the Faith, Brothers and Sisters, and don't suck the BIG BIRD off when he stops by OUR Stations. Don't be rude, but don't be overly friendly. HOOORAY US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
09-12-06 Hoooray for BEER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
09-12-06 Does this mean that the Mayor no longer has "favored status" everywhere? He's been feeling the chill at No. 4 fire station for some time now. He's our neighbor and he gets treated like one... a bad neighbor! Consequently, we don't see too much of him anymore.
09-12-06 9/11 follow your b**ch and sign your name.
Up yours my brother
TEAM: Everyone take a breath and hold some of this positive stuff for Council on Thursday at 1800 Hrs.
09-12-06 9-12-06 WHY WOULD YAMALLI CHIMMICHANGA NAME BE BROUGHT UP IN HERE. ARE YOU SAYING THAT HE CARES MORE ABOUT AFRO-AMERICANS THAN HE CARE ABOUT THE FIRE DEPT. WHAT DOES HE HAVE TO DO WITH THIS. PLEASE CAN SOMEONE CLARIFY THAT FOR ME.
09-12-06 Let's not kid ourselves folks. The only reason that this milktoast mayor is in office, is because he's a placator! He's taken one police chief and made him a deputy mayor to placate the Uhooooooooooroooooooooooos and placed a piss-poor cop in the position of police chief to act as the ultimate YES MAN to the mayor. The cops are constantly bitching for more officers and all the city can do is form more committee's and stage more workshops on the subject. To answer your question - the mayor cares about most everything else before he cares about his police officers and firefighters! Politics and "who you know" drive every decision (or lack of) in this city.
FTM DTRT EGH PTB&S
09-12-06 Not trying to come down on anyone, but why weren't any of these things taken care of before now? Just seems to me that the presidents before Winnie should have taken care of these things. How can you come down on Winnie.? These guys before should have handled this. Their job's were to make working conditions and pay better for our LOCAL and they did not do their job. If you feel that Winnie is not doing the job - you guys didn't do the job either because he is basically cleaning up what you guys( past presidents) neglected over the years. Forgive me if I offended anyone.
09-12-06 Just who is the nitwit that came up with the plan to publicly oppose a millage rate reduction? Taxes are going up because of increased property values even with the rate reduction. The public is strongly in favor of tax relief. We will come out of this looking like spoiled brats. Is there any other group we can alienate? I fear it will take years to recover from the damage that is being done and it will be the members that pay the price. All we need to do is look back 3 years and see where we are today and where we should or could have been.
TEAM: Some of the very same folks countering the millage rate reduction currently sit on our own City Council. That's not to say 'all' are of the same mind set. Williams would like to pursue further reductions! Not 'every' city has rolled back their rates, though. Some have left them alone (Tampa for one) and used the additional monies to square away their public safety programs.
We read what you've written and believe too, that this can be a double edged sword, but the lesser of two eveils, though. Alienating the public (or not) has never been an issue when we went before Council. The Mayor matters little and the public matters little when we get the opportunity to sit in Council Chambers in an attempt to circumvent this farce of a bargaining process that we've endured for 924 days! City Council is our target audience. The difference between where the millage rate currently 'is' and where it may well go, amounts to a difference of 21 cents per day per tax payer. That's $76 per year to the City coffers and Pinellas County has already offered tax relief in the form of a millage rate reduction of their own. And we all know that the lion's share of the taxes listed on our TRIM Notice goes to the County. If you live in the city of St. Pete,, 28% of your TRIM is City taxes - the rest - County.
Editor: Thanks Bro/Sis
09-12-06 I thought chimichanga was something at tijuana flats that baker made or ate. I am so confused.
09-12-06 I said nothing about race, nor would I. I don't feel that that has a place at all. All that I was saying is that he gets results from the BIRD. When he complains, the BIRD listens, and listens well. Could we possibly bring him on our negotiation team? Imagine that!
I apologize about the spelling.
09-12-06 THANK YOU FOR CLARIFYING THAT FOR ME. I UNDERSTAND YOUR POSITION.
In St Pete, here's how the city is run:
A grocery in the black section of town gets a uniform police officer to protect it as part of routine duties. Other groceries and private businesses pay by the hour for that extra service. If a police car is requested, that's extra, too.
But if deputy mayor gets involved in police biz and obligates officers to special assignments, the police chief gives away the store.
Kinda makes you wonder what other police services are done gratis while the regular citizens get stuck with the bill. Nearly every event in "mid-town" gets this sort of special treatment and/or the officers are pressured to "volunteer".
Which begs the rhetorical question: who runs the police dept? Is the mission protecting ALL the citizens or catering to certain sections at political whim? Is that economic development or a city held hostage to special interest?
09-13-06 It looks like Big Bird was passed over for promotion to asst gov.
TEAM: So your guess is that Charlie Crist based his decision on what he's read here about Big Bird?
09-13-06 Great point 09/12/06 "Not trying to come down on anyone, but why weren't any of these things taken care of before now?" Because people are not getting what they want RIGHT NOW they assume it is of course Winnie's and the Local's fault. Maybe they should compare the state of the Union now with when it was run by the last president and the one before that.
09-13-06 We were just joking, Mr. Crist. Now that we've had our cake, can we eat it too?
09-13-06 To the 9-12 poster who doesn't understand our opposition to a mileage reduction. We don't go to the council to bitch about our pay. We go to bring forth the problems associated with giving up funds that are so badly needed by this city and this dept. Equipment, staffing, OT, safety, retention, and recruitment are all because of the "No Money" game that we hear on a daily basis. If we can make the council sees that, then we have won. We stand no chance without educating our elected officials. This is why we protest and picket, and is definitely why we play the politic's game. If this is still unclear to you - call the info line and listen carefully.
TEAM: True all. We have to market the fact that this mayor has done a really ham handed job of putting what has turned out to be, 'too strenuous' a cap on this city's public safety budget's. A long standing debate exists as it pertains to how well the public sector performs vs. the private sector. The one exception -- public safety in the hands of local government, finds very few credible challengers from the private side. By virtue of the fact that there in no profit motive involved when public safety is facilitated by local government, it allows 'efficiency of service' to be the greatest standard to be met rather than that of the 'bottom line'.
As taxpayers, we don't want our money thrown down the drain. Likewise, we don't necessarily want to see the same fiscal constraints that exist in a private for-profit system, hamper the delivery of service in 'our' system for the sole purpose of proving that it can be "done on the cheap!" As many of us know who have been around here for a while, Wackenut claims to be able to do it cheaper, faster, better! Hmmm... mutually exclusive? The public wants the best service as quickly as possible, but they also want it at a reasonable price. What's that price and who determines it?
09-14-06 The city is doing what they want, to us - divide and conquer. Let's stay united even if we disagree. It's our only hope brothers and sisters !
09-14-06 "It looks like Big Bird was passed over for promotion to asst gov." To clarify: the story told to me was that he will be the potential Gov. Crist's education secretary which is a cabinet position, not asst. or Lt. Gov. There is still hope...
09-14-06 Well... the homeless non-taxpayers of St. Petersburg really handed the mayor his ass last night at the 2nd budget reading. Now if the taxpayers could get 'their' act together...
And Winnie - great job as always. For the record and in a public forum, you've managed to place the onus directly on council to look into what's become an intrinsic part of doing business with the MUTTS of this city - eternal stalling tactics.
Did anyone notice the comparisons that were being made by our own "charts and maps Nazi" Mike Connors? In an effort to make the city's case, they found it necessary to compare St. Pete's stats with that of other city's around the state for EVERYTHING BUT LABOR WAGES! Wouldn't it be nice for once if this city's management came into their own and out of the dark ages?
Received via email 9-16-06 RE: Rural Metro in our own backyard.
These firefighters need our help. The Airport Authority has bid out the fire department to Rural/Metro. There is a Sarasota/Manatee Airport Authority meeting scheduled for 0900 on Tuesday September 19, 2006 at the airport. The building is located around the back to the left as you enter the main gate. The informational picket will begin @1200. Not sure how that is organized but they need bodies and moral support. I hope to see you there.
Please pass this along so we can show them what happens when they destroy the careers of firefighters.
They may be only 16 firefighters but they are all union brothers and sisters. There are many small departments in this state that could one day be a target.
wjc
Suncoast Professional Firefighters and Paramedics
Received via email 9-19-06 Does anyone know what the cops COLA amounts to? I think its a couple % starting at the age of 60, but I don't know the specifics? Anyone?
Received via email 9-19-06 Yeah, more than we get !!!!
Received via email 9-19-06 For some reason I thought that it was eiher based on the CPI or 50% of the CPI.
Received via email 9-23-06 Has the meeting on the 26th been canceled? So says the board at the MFS...if its true, what gives?
Webmaster: If it is true, it was discussed at Thursday's Union meeting that the 26th may well turn into a 'soft' meeting date due to the fact that City Council called for an executive session - possibly changing the landscape of negotiations a bit. As you might recall, the executive session was called as a result of President Newton's making it known to Council during the televised second budget hearing that the city's negotiating team is not always ready and appears to be dragging their feet.
Received via email 9-23-06 The meeting was cancelled due to the fact that council and the city's negotiating team will be meeting on the 27th. They're waiting to see the outcome of that meeting.
Received via email 9-24-06 Thanks for the clarity, many of us were unaware that the executive council meeting was actually scheduled.
Received via email 9-25-06 I saw a new memo from the union today . It sez to call the info line, so I did. This is the message in a nutshell... "the meeting for 9-26 is cancelled." It sez that it was necessary so the Mayor and his bean counters can meet. It does not mention a new date. I would not bet on the 9-27 date as mentioned in the 2nd post of 9-23. Call the info line and see if you hear anything different.
Editor: I think that the intent of the 9/27 date was in reference to Council's executive session.
Received via email 9-26-06 With the latest meeting cancellation by the city, I hope everyone is still in this thing for the long haul. It is obvious this mayor is unwilling to increase anything to do with our post employment benefits (pension, cola, health care) sufficient pay increase to stop our members from leaving for greener pastures, or a decrease in our work cycle (added r-day). These are things the members of this department need and are deserving of. Lets keep the pressure on and don't start whining when the city offers us another chance at a Bonus Check just in time for Christmas. We started this thing because of the city's refusal to give us these things 2 years ago, so don't break now. KTF... FTM....
Editor: Good points, all. If we were in this just for the pay, this whole pursuit would have ended months ago. Tally-ho!
Received via email 9-26-06 KEEP THOSE RED SHIRTS CLEANED AND PRESSED. I AM SURE THEY WILL COME IN HANDY.
KTF - FTM
Received via email 9-27-06 "It should also be noted that this mayor gave the Fire Dept (TFD) raises of 6/6/6% over 3 years." from an email at: http://leoaffairs.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6629&sid=fa7b5804fd765d1e8939b426096a7b26. Yet during a Council meeting a couple of weeks ago, we witnessed a certain council person bark at Mike Reilly - "I just want all of you watching on TV to know that St. Petersburg Firefighters are the best paid in Pinellas County."
And we want "you" to know that we work for the 4th largest city is the state and we're paid as if we're the 30th largest!
Received via email 9-27-06 Yea to work my part time job as a piss boy to make ends meet. We have been dicking around too long.
Editor: I'd start looking through the classified for a job emptying drool cups. It's kind of a 'promotion'.
Received via email 9-27-06 "I just want all of you watching on TV to know that St. Petersburg Firefighters are the best paid in Pinellas County." Yeah right. How did this Neanderthal ever get on council?
Palm Harbor
Top Pay '05-'06 50,658
Top Pay '06-'07 52,685
Top Pay '07-'08 54,792
FTM
Received via email 9-28-06 Well I see that we've got a negotiations date. Wanna bet that if they do ANYTHING for us -- it will be to throw "cash only" at us? As much as Winnie claims to be in their ear telling them where our shortcomings are, they've never given me the warm and fuzzy feeling that they understand anything about anything that's not a pet project of theirs!
Remember to say a prayer for Polk County Deputy Matthew Williams and his K-9 partner "Diogi." We've all got dangerous job's. On any given day, even this pr**k of a mayor could suffer a perforated cuticle, operating a stapler. Can you say "gaping asshole?"
Received via email 10-07-06 Golly Gee Whiz !!! What a surprise !!! The city has postponed the "negotiations" AGAIN !!! At this rate we won't see a contract until after the "gaping asshole" has left office. Too bad the secret plan hasn't taken effect yet. Stand by for future lame ass excuses from the union to justify the city's tactics. Maybe some new blood is needed to come up with something fresh. (Yawn) Instead of pissing people off the whole thing is just getting boring. Most of us have learned to live with what we have and don't give a damn one way or another whether we get any increase. It would seem that the city is only interested in continuing what we don't have. You can believe what you want but it's pretty obvious that the tactics used by the union haven't produced squat. So be prepared for "business as usual" and more of the same. Nothing new here.
Received via email 10-07-06 "Most of us have learned to live with what we have and don't give a damn one way or another whether we get any increase."
And that would be ------------ YOU???
While you profess to be a "lay-down" the rest of us will carry on in the true warrior tradition. After the battle, we'll bring your body back home with us.
Here's a couple of phone numbers of people that you can bitch to:
893-7171 Mayor of St. Petersburg - "gaping asshole" as you put it.
323-1786 - I.A.F.F. Local 747 President Winnie Newton - promoter of "lame ass excuses from the union" as you put it.
Both are elected.
Both take your money!
One will promise you more pomises!
One will promise you your diginity in a good fight against the other!
Sheesh... if we'd already settled, you'd be bitching that we took the same old thing again and didn't get any pension improvements. Give the rest of us a break and do as you say, "Live with what we have." From what I've seen at the Union Hall, there are only a few that are taking on the stress for the rest of us on a daily basis. If I were you, I'd call the second phone number and say "thanks for all you do. Is there any way I can help?"
Received via email 10-07-06 Our Mayor cares about one thing, himself and his agenda to make himself look good. And that is it.
Received via email 10-07-06 To the 10-07 poster, what do you believe the union should do? A 3% deal would be accepted by the city in a heartbeat. My last raise of 4% got me $1995.00 a year. My last home insurance bill went up $2600.00. I dont think a 3% deal would get me very far. Is something better than nothing? I'm sure you might believe that but guess what, this is for the rest of your life, so you should realize that every decision made by the union is not just for today but FOR-EVER. If you are one of the many who feel the union is keeping you from retiring... get over it. I don't want my future screwed up by a snap decision, so some old timer, who for more than twenty years failed to take a financial responsibily to secure their future, can bitch that the Union hasn't done anything for them. We have all been through this before and we will go through it again. It' has only been 9 months since you last received a raise, so lets lighten up and see what comes out of this.
Received via email 10-08-06 The city offered 4 5 6 % last year. That would have been 4% last OCT. We would have just received 5% this month and be in line for 6% next year. I think that adds up to a lot more than your $1995.
Received via email 10-09-06 If we got them to go from 4-5-6 to 3-3-3 in just one short year, then we definately need to stand our ground until we see at least 0-1-2... maybe even better! By standing together the sky is the limit, people! The advantage is ours! We have them right where we want them! FTM!
Editor: We've got the enemy right where we want them. "We're surrounded!"
Received via email 10-09-06 "We're surrounded? Good, now we can kill the bastards in any direction." ~ Colonel Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller; Korean War
Editor: Uh... yeah -- that's the one I was looking for!
Received via email 10-12-06 Just got my Fire Fighter magazine from the International. In it on page 8 is an article touting the wonderful job the International did when taking a “special interest” in the rights of fire fighters in the city of Clearwater, FL. It is also stated that “Without the International, we would not have been successful in our ongoing fight for fair treatment”. Just a small question here. Isn’t the IAFF District Vice President a member of this Local? Why is it that the International never shows it’s face in St. Petersburg to help our Local win against city hall? Oh that’s right. It requires a request from us for them to help. We pay per capita tax every month to this organization and in return they send us a magazine in the mail. But it’s not totally the fault of the International. It requires a request from our Local to assist before they get involved. And that hasn’t happened. Since our bargaining team has all the answers and is doing such a great job it’s obvious we don’t need any proven assistance on our side. We must have people who are way smarter than those dopes at the International. So why would we ask for help to win a contract? Most of us agree that we can last another two even three years on the money we’re making now. Let’s see the International beat that.
Don’t get too excited about Tuesday’s meetings. Here’s why:
R-Day…Probably not going to see that happen. Why? Because the city isn’t inclined to hire 15 more men to man the vehicles so that we can have more men off. We have vehicles now that aren’t manned because there isn’t enough manpower to go around with R-Days and vacations and sickies. So I wouldn’t look for them to jump on the bandwagon to give us this demand.
Multiplier…Here’s another one that has a half life of about fifteen minutes. Another .5 percent added to the multiplier has been gotten in SOME contracts across the nation but will probably not happen here. At least not at this time. Think about it. We want more time off and in the same breath we want to retire sooner. This is not something the city couldn’t go for even if there was some support for it. Financially it’s a bottomless pit. Don’t hold your breath.
C.O.L.A….And what’s the justification for this? The cops have it. Well that and a buck and a half will get you a cup of coffee in some places. Apparently the removal of the SS offset wasn’t good enough for most of us. And having the city invest money in high yield investments so that we can get a very substantial amount of money in addition to a pension that has the possibility of paying us more than we were making on the job isn’t good enough for us. We want more. And there’s always the possibility that we could get it. Maybe not exactly like the cops but something tolerable. But not right now.
The point is that you can’t go in and get everything you want all at the same time. It’s clear that something is cramping the negotiations. Since most of us believe that the tactics of the union are monumentally fair and reasonable it would seem that the city has other thoughts. And why is that? Could it be that the union is asking for more than what can be attained in one agreement? Has the union reduced the offer on the basis that we can attain some of the demands but not all of the demands at this time? You can show them all the charts and graphs you want but too many demands at once with no wiggle room merely makes for a stalemate. And since the union seems to know that they won’t win going to an impasse hearing they just sit on their haunches and blow smoke up everyone’s ass.
It’s called negotiating folks. And that means you have to give and take. We can’t continue to demand everything at one time and expect to get it. And when we don’t get it we take the stance that the city is the culprit and we aren’t going to “give up”. We’ll stand here and hold our breath until our face turns blue and the veins in our forehead burst before we’ll budge an inch. Yeah….that’ll work. We need to get a grip and educate ourselves to the attainable things we want. We need to educate ourselves to the workings of collective bargaining and the fact that there are other methods of negotiations besides stonewalling. Yes, that’s right. Stonewalling. We’re guilty of it just like the city. We haven’t changed our demands one bit. Yet we accuse the city of bargaining unfairly. But then we don’t do anything about it. We should have gone to impasse and Special Master hearings years ago but we didn’t. Why is that? It’s because we can’t win. And that’s not going to change until we find a way to move on our demands.
Now I know I’m now considered the biggest turn coat and Mutt in the union. And if you want to hate someone I guess I’m a pretty good candidate. And nothing I could say would change your mind about it. But instead of closing your mind to everything except what YOU want just consider what I’ve said for a bit and ask yourself if I could be even partially right about our stance. It could be you might at least see something worth considering.
Received via email 10-12-06 I'm considering a swift kick in the ass for you. Thanks for pumping the city up. Really needed that.
Received via email 10-12-06 Who invited the mayor to speak? Oooops... my zipper was open again!
Received via email 10-12-06 You might be right 10/12, we may not get ALL our demands this time. How about AT LEAST one of the above improvements plus a market-value raise? (i.e. paying the busiest and largest dept in the county accordingly) The city is richer than ever, like the shirt says, if not now, when? Or should it be just wait til next year...look where that got us. We will continue to get farther behind and soon become even more of a stepping stone department. As far as asking the international for help... you've got me on that one. Someone tell me a good reason why not.
Received via email 10-12-06 Webmaster, was that from Karen Richardson or Dick Baker?
Webmaster: Yes & Yes!
Received via email 10-12-06 Thanks for the pep talk. It does a body good!
First off, it ain't over till the fat lady sings. The only thing that I didn't see in your speech above, was one of my old favorite's - "Gee we're so close. Let's take the money now and we'll work on the benefits next time around!" Like it says at the top of this page, "...this is next time!"
Is the glass half empty or is it half full? When we discuss ANYTHING that pertains to this city - the glass has always been half empty. In fact it's a lot like a sieve. When we're talking about this labor organization - WE MAKE THE GLASS HALF FULL!
I honestly don't know where this type of rhetoric comes from. I don't know of a single one of us outside of our union staff, who's lost a meal or a moments rest working on this contract. How many of you have driven by the Union hall at 9 o'clock at night and seen vehicles in the driveway and the lights still on? It happens a lot. Those guys aren't working by the hour. We pay them a salary. Less can be more if you're looking out for your own wallet, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Our union staff works harder for you and me than any one of the office staff at HQ (except maybe for Rob and Darin). Our objective should never be to work to get a contract signed as quickly as possible but on fighting for what's right!
Here's a little food for thought and it goes directly to the question we should all be asking ourselves every day - "Why don't 'we' deserve that too?" I talked with a buddy of mine from Pinellas Park FD today. He gave me a little insight into how their Local operates. They are strong fighters and should be viewed as very successful union brothers. One of the things that he told me that really shocked me, was the fact that they are currently paying 6% into their pension plan and getting more than us in benefits. Wow - pay less, get more! That's not the shocker though. The shock came when he told me that they will soon be paying something less than their current 6% because 'their' pension doesn't have the City of St. Pete's hands all over it! In other words, it's not f***ed up like ours! Their pension is so rich, it's helping to pay itself down! This city's administration can come up with money to pay for every pet project that comes along, but they have never taken care of the human beings that protect it.
Bottom line - we work for a city that has money falling out of it's pockets. Because some of you don't believe that we deserve it, doesn't mean that we don't deserve it! Since this city's administration can't see us as being the dept. that protects the 4th largest city in the state of Florida - why then don't they even do a good job of competing with other agencies within Pinellas County for the top spot?
Talk about BULLSHIT!
I deserve better and so don't you!
Received via email 10-12-06 There is a magic number known only to the Lord Mayor and maybe 2 others. Total cost of package will, no way ,no how,exceed that number. I agree with the previous poster that if we ask for too much we get nothimg.Take off your rose colored glasses and do a reality check. There is no conspiracy against the Local. The Police and General employees have contracts. Our problem has been ineffective bargaining.Someone said we got a raise 9 months ago,they failed to say that it was the only raise in the last 3 years. And it was a year and a half late.Nothing else for 3 years.That folks is beyond bad.Lets wake up and get real.I know what I accept in a heartbeat,I some of you open your eyes and think about what you would accept. Otherwise we are doomed by the pie in the sky guys with the secret plan.
Received via email 10-12-06 *How many of you have driven by the Union hall at 9 o'clock at night *
Better question: How many of you know where the union hall is and if you saw the lights on, would you stop in and help?
Received via email 10-12-06 First 10-12 You asked, "Could it be that the union is asking for more than what can be attained in one agreement?" Do you really thinks it's that simple? If they won't get off of 3%, do you really think that that's what the problem is? In the few times that we've been to the table since our last pay raise (two lousey times since February) they haven't even counter offered.
Get your head out of your ass. It's not as if we're asking for the moon and the stars. They're simply trying to break our will and you're not helping! And yes --- you should have re-read your last paragraph. You DO appear to be a MUTT and after realizing that, you should have shitcanned your anti-us email.
FTM PTB&S EGH DTRT RFB&S
Received via email 10-13-06 That pie in the sky that you're talking about is Tampa's pay plan. I guess they weren't thinking that way when they went to the bargaining table, huh? No guts, no glory!
Received via email 10-13-06 In regards to the long worded post of 10-12... Since this poster was totally incorrect in the ASSumption that the IAFF District Vice President is a member of this Local, I guess you should look at your copy of the International Fire Fighter a little bit better. On page 4 of this same issue you will note ALL of the members of the IAFF Executive Board, you won't find the name of one of our members on it. So, if you can't get something right that is written down in front of you, why should I believe anything else that you have surmised all by your self.
If you have some facts, then I am sure the Team would love to see and hear them. If you are experienced in bargaining with the city, why didn't you step up three years ago when the union asked for help? The biggest reason there are so many items on the table is because they are all areas that CAN'T wait any longer. We have already waited too long for many of these.
Pinellas Park can do what it does for a simple reason. Ask any of them, how many retirees their city has? How many retired while in their early and mid forties? How many do they have that collected past the 30 years that most pension plans base the life expectancy on? How many other plans out there give retirees not just a fixed amount COLA, but an amount equal to that of the current employees? (This is the biggest problem). A fixed 2% COLA is one thing but when you have people receiving equal shares of current employees and don't pay into the system is what makes even small improvements tougher for us. And then ask any other Firefighter in this county the way to their PENSION DOME. This city has money. You know it and yes the International knows it. Who do you think supplies the information that makes up most of the pay graphs?
Received via email 10-13-06 One correction. We have a DVP from the FPF not the IAFF. So go sell sell your mutt shit somewhere else, first 10/12. If you helped out as much as you bitched we might have a contract. I believe that the 10/12 post might be Dick Tully in disguise. Going on and on about the same stuff.
Received via email 10-14-06 You accuse me of giving the city ammunition to fight us. Are you so dull-witted that you think the city hasn’t already come to the same conclusions? Do you think I came up with those ideas in the last week? Do you think the team hasn’t known those facts before now? As usual the person who speaks the truth is shouted down by the ones who don’t know what they’re talking about. I’d venture to say that the ones doing the most howling have never been to a bargaining meeting; have never read the law governing collective bargaining in Florida; have never held office in the Local; and are basing their misinformed drivel on scuttlebutt heard at the stations among disgruntled whiners.
You are quick to jump on me about my allegiance to the union yet you don’t deny that what I say is true by offering any viable facts to the contrary. You yell and holler the same old rhetoric that’s been inflaming the less than astute in our midst for years. Why don’t you come up with some proof or justification that would influence us with the basis for our demands other than “because we say so”. That’s not too much to ask. Find some and then we can see where you’re coming from.
And thanks for comparing me to brother Tully. I can’t think of anyone I’d rather be compared to. You didn’t like it when he spoke the truth and tried to wake us up and now anyone who disagrees with your point of view is compared to him. I’d say he must have struck a nerve. I can wait until Tuesday. And I predict it will be business as usual. And if there is any movement it’ll be on the union’s part. Once that happens, if there is an agreement, the team will pat itself on the back for being tenacious and hard nosed in it’s attack on the city’s position in their quest for an agreement. When in reality they had to do exactly what I’ve described. Let’s just wait and see. After all, I may be wrong.
Received via email 10-15-06 Okay, you've talked a blue streak. What form does your "big stick" take, oh wise one?
Received via email 10-15-06 Well I don’t actually have a so called “big stick” solution to all our problems. However I do have some suggestions that I’d be willing to offer for discussion. I’m just afraid if I voice my suggestions that they’ll be taken the wrong way and there will be those who will put a racial spin on them just to stir the pot. That being said if there is anyone who is willing to listen to a few suggestions without getting all pissy about things I would be happy to discuss them with you. Here’s a list for starters:
1. Get Winnie every bit of schooling on collective bargaining that is available. Make provisions for him to attend no matter where he has to go. Send Billy with him so that the information and skills reach two people. The methods and tactics learned can be passed down to the rest of the those who need to know when they return. Keep the knowledge moving.
2. Call the International and ask for assistance. Get the district VP over here and provide the help we pay per capita for.
3. Call on the past presidents of the Local for advice and direction. It’s true that some are not in the best graces of the Local but each one was successful in securing a contract during their term of office.
4. Put a copy of the PERC law in the hands of each station steward. Have them read it. (It’s not that long) Have them disseminate fact instead of bullshit at the station level.
5. Involve the elected officials of the Local in more things. Take a
steward to the bargaining table every time you bargain. Pass on the information
first hand. Have Winnie visit the stations after every bargaining session and
talk to the members.
6. If there is a vice president on each shift make sure the ones off duty attend the bargaining sessions. If there are no shift vice presidents, make some. These are the guys that will have the skills to run the Local in the absence of the president and also the ones who will probably make up the next bargaining team. Involve them in writing articles when it comes time to prepare for negotiations.
7. Teach every elected official of the Local the ins and outs of running things. Start running the Local in a capacity that prepares for the future. Winnie had no one to learn from or to even observe prior to taking office. In my humble opinion that’s where the biggest flaw is found today. And this is not Winnie’s fault. This is the fault of those who went before him. He got little or no help from the outgoing regime and had to learn the ropes from scratch for himself. That was wrong and he deserved better than that.
8. Many, if not most of the members have never been involved with a union in the past. Therefore they don’t really understand the reason or the purpose of a union. This has always been a problem. We need to educate ourselves and each other as to the reasons why we do what we do. And also the reasons why we don’t do. It’s apparent that most of the members only know the situation via what the person who speaks the loudest at the station has to say. Most of the time the person doing the talking is putting his own spin on things and those of the people he agrees with. Spreading facts is what we must work on. Not rumors.
9. Focus, focus, focus. You can’t expect to be successful in major things if you spread yourself too thin being involved with minor things. Rumors, backbiting, finger pointing and such on the site is not only childish but a total waste of time. Keep that stuff in the stations and out of the public view. It’s petty and time consuming and gets us nowhere. Make you contribution to the site informative. And try to be positive.
10. Find out for yourself. Don’t rely on what some loudmouth at the station says is true. Maybe it is. Maybe it isn’t. Maybe it’s only partially one or the other. Use the available means to run down rumors and get answers to questions for yourself. Don’t be influenced by the radicals and uninformed. Use you head and make your own decisions. Think things out and look at all the angles. You’re an adult now. Act like one. Be proud of your profession and be a part of it’s success.
Received via email 10-15-06 "And thanks for comparing me to brother Tully." "I can’t think of anyone I’d rather be compared to."
I don't think he compared you to Tully. Like me, he thinks you 'are' Tully!
"You didn’t like it when he spoke the truth and tried to wake us up and now anyone who disagrees with your point of view is compared to him."
Was that "He" or "I" that spoke the truth? Lots of shades of gray around here. Not altogether sure about where the "truth" lies.
It's easy to piss and moan when you're not running the show anymore and still want to be. If it were easy squeezing all of these cities, the city of Clearwater would have given in to their firefighters demands long ago. Local 1158 is in a constant pissing match with a deceitful chief, a complacent city council and an asshole of a city manager who supports every notion that comes out of that dipshit chief's cake hole. If you hadn't noticed, mayor "Dick" Baker would rather spend the money on dog parks and rewarding school principals for good grades, so we've got our own asshole to deal with. The way he looks at it... he's already got a Fire Department. Why pay more for something you've already got?
It must have been easy to retire in your 40's to another state where it's cheaper to live while drawing a pension benefit that is guaranteed to grow over time. I on the otherhand have to live with the constant reminder that for the past 30+ years, our union presidents have performed victory laps every time something more than a three percent pay raise was offered up by the city... choosing to gloat over how great we did on the way to the ratification party.
If you hadn't noticed from your distant land, we've become the brunt of most of the 'used to be' jokes.
"Used to be a great Police Department to work for."
"Used to be a great Fire Department to work for."
No more!
Received via email 10-15-06 You make some good points. Why don't you step up and help us misinformed. I am sure Winnie would welcome the help.
Received via email 10-15-06 Winnie's been offered help in the past. But he just brushes it off.
Received via email 10-15-06 When did this page turn into Dick Tully's private blog? Dick, we thought you said that you were not going to write stuff in here anymore. The only thing different is that you quit signing your name. Your words would mean a lot more if you would stand by them.
Joe Rorcheck <-----See? I'm not afraid to sign!
Received via email 10-16-06 This is for poster #3 on 10/15/06 You got me. Aren’t ya proud? You’re the only one who didn’t know it was me. Did you figure it all out by yourself or did someone help you? I really get under your skin don’t I? Yes, I did retire in my early forties. What is it about that that bothers you? We didn’t move to Georgia until twenty years later. And we love it here. In fact there’s a whole bunch of fire department retirees who have pensions with escalator clauses from St. Petersburg who also live here. They like it too. In fact we all get together once a month just to gloat. If you’re trying to belittle me to make yourself look smart it’s not working. All I hear is the same old blather about the mean ol’ mayor in St. Pete. And the weird fire chief in Clearwater. And it’s true. Local 1158 IS constantly “in a pissing match” with the chief. Unlike Local 747... they know how to win.
As far as wanting to be president. You’re way off on that one. What would be the incentive for me to do that? I’d get to work with members like you? After all I’m getting all those big bucks that you continually whine about from the city in my pension that includes an escalator clause. That really pisses you off doesn’t it? What I can’t figure out is why you single me out when all I’m trying to do is point out things that either aren’t working or need improvement. All you do is bitch about everything with no ideas or actual help for the local at all. If you want to yell at retirees who are retired on pensions with an escalator clause you can do so the first Tuesday of every month at the retiree breakfast. Go down there and tell those guys how you feel about them. Take along that other myth that the local doesn’t bargain for retirees and throw that in their faces. They’ll laugh you right out of the place.
I have to wonder if you and all the others like you ever take the time to actually read what I post to see if there could be a side to things other than yours. Or do you just read the post to see where you can make jabs and insinuations? You made a grave error if you thought I wouldn’t continue to voice my opinion on this site. Just one other thing. Have you ever held an office or involved yourself with any of the workings of the local? Have you gone to more than one meeting this year? Were you one of the four who provided the cook out for the public? Were you one of the three who went to Sarasota to support our brother fire fighters down there? I’m waiting. And don’t forget to sign your name to the post. I’m sure you’ll want everyone to know who you are.
Fraternally,
Dick Tully
Sorry Joe, but the fact is that I have every right to post here as much and as frequently as I want. I know that bothers you but the webmaster is merely doing a great job of letting opinions other than yours be heard here. I belong to the same club you do only I don’t agree with the same things you do. In your estimation that means I shouldn’t be allowed to post because I don’t count. If it isn’t your way then it’s the wrong way. Perhaps it’s because I’m retired that my opinion or thoughts aren’t worth consideration. This isn’t my blog by any means but I definitely stand by my posts one hundred percent. And I won’t let those who have given nothing to this local but loud “mouth” shout me down. I’m still waiting for the answers to my questions, Joe. They’re pretty simple questions and shouldn’t require a lot of thought. And be sure that I will always try my best to prevent members like you from being the only ones posting their views on this site. Here’s some help on those questions, Joe:
1. Yes……….. No…………
2. Yes………… No…………
3. Yes………… No…………
4. Yes……….. No…………
Just make your mark on the applicable answer and post the results for all of us to see.
Fraternally,
Dick Tully
Received via email 10-16-06 Gee Whiz, Dick. I don't think anyone is upset that you are back. Some of us are just a little surprised because when you said that you were through here you stormed out kinda huffy. I figured you would come back since most hissy fits tend to not last very long. What might be upsetting the younger guys is that you come from the generation that let the city take away the cost of living adjustment, then pretended like you had no choice. You pretty much let the city ransack the pension for the future hires as long as they did not steal from you "old pension" guys. So don't come in here bragging about how the union had bigger balls in your days when your era pissed away the retirement benefits that the newer guys have had to slowly fight to get back over the last 35 years. We're cleaning up YOUR mess, and YOU are whining that we are not doing it fast enough. Go figure.
Thanks, Dick. And welcome back.
Received via email 10-16-06 Brother Dick T, remember about a month ago when you said: "I thought about it brother and you’re right. I will no longer post anything to this site and would hope that perhaps someone else will take my place and say all the things that you agree with. But before I go I want you to know that you and the guy that wants a COLA with another R day plus a larger multiplier will retire before you see that happen".
I welcome you back here, your ranting is fun to watch. A guy your age is supposed to let off steam now and then. It's a natural stool softener or some such thing. I was just pointing out that you said that you were not coming back, and now here you are. You went back on what you said, just like when you old guys gave up the COLA for all future employees years ago. You rolled over on future employees to save your own pension, and now here you are with your hat in your hand. Get in line with the rest of us, oldtimer. It's a big waiting game and we saved you a chair. I for one welcome your rantings in here, even if you guys did sell us out back in the 70's. Time heals all wounds. We forgive you. We know you like to bite, but it's the bite of an old man with loose dentures. We can't completely trust some of you old guys, but at least you are predictable and fun to watch.
Joe Rorchek
Received via email 10-16-06 Rumor Control.... Someone is spreading a rumor about tomorrows negotiations meeting times and place. THE MEETING IS TUESDAY OCTOBER 17th, @ 2 PM at the MSC BUILDING ROOM 800. Call the union info line for the confirmation if you need to. I wonder why someone would purposely try to misdirect us, as to this important information?
Received via email 10-16-06 I HAVE A QUESTION MR. TULLY. WHEN YOU WERE IN OFFICE WHY DIDNT YOU FIX THE PROBLEMS THAT WE ARE DEALING WITH RIGHT NOW? I AM NOT TRYING TO BE FUNNY OR ANYTHING BUT WHAT KEPT YOU FROM ADDRESSING THESE PROBLEMS WHEN YOU WERE IN OFFICE?
Received via email 10-16-06 Who went and woke up Tully?
Received via email 10-17-06 Before we get a battle started with prior plan retirees lets get our history straight. I just talked to a long time pension board member and this is as best he can remember. When the local first was chartered the pension was not included in bargaining by mutual agreement of the city and the local. Problems started for the city when several years of high inflation caused raises and pension costs to increase rapidly.The city then decided to terminate the old plan and start a new one for all new employees.Since the old pension was not bargained and all current employees kept all their benefits and pension rights,the local had no way to show that any member had been damaged and no change had been made to the contract. I cant say this is fully correct but if anyone can set the record straight please feel free. I just think this is not the time to be fighting amongest ourselves.
Received via email 10-17-06 Please print this and pull it out whenever you get the urge to blame your problems on those who had nothing to do with them.
Well I’ll try to give you a little help since I remember what your saying only there’s more to it than that. First of all, the prior pension , the one with the escalator is a law of some sort. I don’t recall the specifics because I can’t remember every damn thing. But the thing that kept the union from trying to negotiate changes in the prior pension was the fact that the pension could not be opened for change without opening the entire bill. Additionally it took the mutual consent of BOTH parties to agree to any discussions relating to the pension. The city at the time in question, around the early 70’s, was as stated facing some real financial problems. The prior pension stuck in THEIR craw almost as much as it does in many of yours. The city wanted to open the pension and get rid of the escalator. The membership was not willing to allow that since the escalator was the backbone of the pension. Every person on the fire department at that time was hired under the prior pension. And the pension was what retained and attracted those who were hired.
In 1972 the city had had enough and there was a very big push to hire minorities, namely Afro-Americans, on the job. They were having a terrible time recruiting minorities. Up until then there had never been a black fire fighter on the job in St. Petersburg. The city was under the gun to hire minorities and yet they didn’t want to add to the number of employees already on the prior pension for two reasons: One, for many years the city had failed to contribute their portion of the money that was required to make the prior pension financially sound. However they had methodically taken the fire fighter’s contributions out of their paychecks every payday. Two, they didn’t want to add bodies to the prior pension because of the escalator clause. The city recognized that this was a very deep pit and they were trying very hard to stop digging.
In a nutshell the city needs to hire minorities, and meet the numbers. They have a pension in place that will cost them dearly if they let it continue. And they’ve reneged for years and not funded their portion of the existing pension as mandated in the plan. Their solution was to implement another pension which would become known as the Supplemental pension. In order to get this implemented they needed bodies to be covered by it. They brought it to the fire department employees and touted it as the greatest thing since sliced bread. We recognized it for what it was and told them to shove it up their ass. This didn’t sit well. But there was nothing they could do to force us to take it. Since we were already covered by a pension and had contributed into it for many years it was going to be very hard for the city to convince us to change. And the change had to be voluntary. They wanted us to voluntarily reject the prior pension and accept the supplemental plan. It was the only way they could get the new plan implemented. The city went crazy when we wouldn’t budge.
Then they realized that they may not be able to coerce those on duty to bite on their offering but they COULD make the change if the new hires were required to come under the Supplemental plan. At that time firefighters Curry and Brown were in training. The union was helpless to stop the city from implementing a new pension in addition to the old one. The city had certain rights governing employment and the pension was one of them. (I don’t know when the changes occurred but at that time pensions were not negotiable if I remember right.) Consequently Curry and Brown were the first two new hires who were going to be hired under the Supplemental pension. We approached them in an effort to convince them not to hire on under the new pension since it was a piece of crap. And when I say approached I mean “approached”. However, and understandably, they wanted the job badly enough to hire on under the new pension. This put warm bodies covered by the city’s new pension plan and it went from there.
I was president of the Local from ‘75 thru ‘79. The law governing the negotiating of pensions did not change during my term of office. Therefore I didn’t bargain for pension COLA’s. I don’t know when it became commonplace to bargain pension benefits since I’m quite sure that occurred after I retired. But I can assure you that I never had the opportunity. It’s hardly reasonable that I should get blamed for not addressing today’s problems back in 1975. We were uneducated on COLAs. Knew what they were but they didn’t affect us. Neither plan had a cost of living clause in it at that time. In fact if you get a copy of the contract from those days you’ll probably see that bargaining for pensions was not allowed. I hope this sheds at least a little light on things. I’m sure my recollections are not A-1 on the money but they’re very close. If you want to get a more up to date explanation of things try talking to Rick Fienberg (sp), Mike Moore, or Mike Wimmers. They were closer to the problem than I was.
Joe, I’m still waiting for answers……….
Fraternally,
Dick Tully
Received via email 10-17-06 Poor Dick,
I'm sure you thought anyone that knew these old things about the past would have been long ago retired. Well guess what? Since the big pension change in '72, only a few have been able to leave. The only reason you're on the site being so concerned - is that while you folks were not caring about the new guys, you guys forgot to make sure that you would get regular pay raises instead of having to wait for a new contract to be signed, so here you are hoping to push your ill advised crap-o-la in the hopes that we the unlearned will fold, so you can get some more money. Lets see if I can straighten this out for the new guys. You retired 20+ years ago @50% of your pay, approx $12,000.00 wasn't it? Now what are you pulling in? $20,000 or better? And you still get increases EVERY time we do? Wow what a great deal you got . No wonder no-one was willing to put up a fuss to keep your golden parachutes intact. I and the other current members will retire and NEVER get an increase without some hard work and alot of putting up with the BS this city is trying to throw at us. We are willing to wait it out and work for OUR futures instead of taking peanuts for your benifit.
Oh yeah, one last thing. The ideas that some have posted about your being the next president. In order to be an Officer or Official of this Local you MUST be a member in good standing. Well just for your and the others information, you are a retired member of the IAFF only and you don't even pay that fee, we do. With that said I dont know how you can possibly feel you're qualified to tell the members of this local what to do.
Received via email 10-18-06 Hello. As self appointed Fire Department Answer Man, allow me to attempt to reach for some middle ground here. First, it's too late to complain about how we lost most of our pension back in the early 70's.
For those of you who are thinking that Dick Tully's wordy explanation of the history of our pension plan blamed the changes on the new minority hires accepting this poor pension, that's not completely fair. We hired very few minorities in the early 70's, so most of the new hires were white. New hires can't negotiate pensions. When you join the job, you take what you get and when you get time on the job you have the option of fighting the city and improving working conditions.
As someone who came on in the later 70's, when most of the department was still on the "old" pension, I can tell you that those old pension guys used to love to throw their superior pension in our faces. I was given more shit about our lousy pension by these "escalator" guys than anything else back in those days. And when you consider how much crap a probie has to take, that is saying something.
It is NOT fair to blame Dick Tully for the new pension, nor is it fair for him to suggest that the new hires should not have accepted it. Change comes from within (employees), not from outside (the not yet hired). I would still gladly trade pensions with Dick, but I understand his aggravation. He left with a smaller initial payout, but with expectations for raises. He is not getting his raises so you have to appreciate his position.
Since we have never heard any stories about how hard his generation of firefighters worked to prevent the "supplemental plan" from coming into existance, it is easy to blame them for our current problems. Dick says that he had no training in the term "COLA", but he seemed to completely understand the term "escalator." However, I will bet that in the early 70's most people recognized that "COLA' and "escalator" mean pretty much the same thing. I am willing to forgive the guys who let the city rob us future employees. A lot of what firefighters and paramedics do involves cleaning up other peoples messes. Our pension plan is no different.
So Dick, don't let the anxiety of the generation of firefighters that you "warned" get you down, and we will try not to let your impatience for your latest cost of living adjustment (sorry, I meant to say "escalation") disturb us.
In a sense, we are all in this together, although we view things from two dramatically different perspectives. I learned to be patient with the rebuilding of our busted up pension a long time ago. The recent delays in our contract will force the "escalator" generation to have some patience as well.
Still seeking the middle ground,
David Fraser
Received via email 10-18-06 To the Asshole of this site: what a lame m f'er, ie fino!
Joe Rorchek was a 30-year (TV LAND) veteran of the Los Angeles City Fire Department who specialized in arson investigations. His sons were also firemen - Ted on the ground and Chris from the air, as a helicopter pilot.
Other cast members included: Haley, a young woman trying to prove herself as the city's first female "smoke eater," and Danny, a homeless 13-year-old boy adopted by the Rorcheks. Of course, he joined the Fire Department's Explorer Program so he could fight fires as well.
Along with lessons in fire safety, the audience saw examples of the work of rescue operations, paramedics and even scuba diving for underwater fire protection - a danger most people didn't even know existed.
Received via email 10-18-06 Re: Poor Dick
Good Morning shit for brains. For the life of me I can’t figure out why my earning $20,000 a year burns your ass so much. I also can’t really give a damn.
Hmmmmmmm......Joe hasn't got the time to answer my questions and you haven't got the balls to sign your name. Again, I took what they agreed to give me after 20 years. It is called a pension. When those of us who are on the pension got hired WE READ IT. You however, took the job because the money was more than you could make with your limited education and cry baby attitude. The pension didn't enter your mind. And now you want to shoot your big mouth off at people you don't even know or for that matter ever worked with about two things. Their pension and your pension. Basically you, and others like you, aren't worth my time trying to educate you about things you know nothing about. I posted the facts as I remember them. Whether you like it of want to believe it is up to you. I think we have already seen an example of your intelligence in that area. I didn't address you personally with the information but only posted it for history. Oh, and by the way....two things. One, I have never TOLD you what to do. I have suggested and offered alternatives to what is being done now. Please go the top of the page and read the giant letters that spell "IMPASSE". Does this ring a bell? Was I right when I said it would be "business as usual'? Was I right when I said the only way there was going to be a contract would be if the union backed up a little? Did I say it would be a cold day in hell before you saw all those things you're demanding given to you in one year? You
bet your ass I did !!! And two, (god you are so ignorant) I happen to be quite an excellent "member in standing". And do you know why? Of course you don't. All mouth and no brains. My dues are paid every month for me. And do you know who pays them? YOU DO !!! As a past president my dues are paid for me. Look it up genius. You who know so much. You cheap ass imitation of a brother firefighter. I don’t know where you get your information but I have absolutely no intention of ever setting foot in St. Petersburg let alone being the president of this Local. You need to flush your brain and start over from the beginning. And next time you want to be noticed...sign your name.
Joe, I'm still waiting for those answers.
Fraternally,
Dick Tully
Received via email 10-18-06 Dave I'm not saying it was the minorities "fault" back in '72. What I'm saying is that in order for the city to implement the supplemental pension there had to be people covered by it. Gene and Al just happened to be the two who were first. Hell, it could have been two white guys and the result would have been the same. I didn't intend to sound like I was blaming them for anything. I only wanted to show what the city thinking was at the time.
Just one other thing. If I'm not mistaken the prior pension was a COLA ONLY UNTIL THE UNION BEGAN TO NEGOTIATE THE PAY PLAN. Once that started then the increases became an annual result of bargaining and automatically effected the prior plan members. The situation would have been the same WITH OR WITHOUT A CONTRACT on the basis that the prior plan members would still get the so called COLAs if and when they were awarded and the supplemental plan members wouldn't. Does this sound logical? Now I'm gonna get accused by someone of being part of the group that started the union to perpetuate the prior plan pay adjustments. There's no way I can escape.
Maybe you can clear something up for me. How can any member say that the pension I have is greater than the one you guys have now? This just amazes me. I mean we never heard of a "multiplier" or a "drop plan" back then. But based on the amounts I calculate are possible to attain I'd take yours over mine any time. It seems to me that you can, after thirty some years retire at 100% based on the highest three years of your income. Also for the last five years you can invest your pension money in a drop plan that gives you a lump sum six figure amount upon retirement. I only have information given to me by retirees and visitors who either live or visit this area. If I'm wrong I would appreciate some help. With the money covered that well I would think the members would be more interested in health care and widow benefits and the like after retirement than some small amount being added to the pension check every so many years.
Please pardon me for being abrupt but I think one of Joe Rorcheks fans has called me a mother fucker and I really need to take care of that. I appreciate you Dave and thank you for your input.
Fraternally
Dick Tully
Received via email 10-18-06 For the poster who calls me an asshole and a mother effer.
Is your post an advertisement for a Joe Rorchek telethon or something? Do you know how much I don’t give a shit about any of that? You’d do better writing the Pope and requesting sainthood. And do you kiss your wife with that mouth? You know, one of the things I try hard to do is not put my posts on a personal level. That is until the other person decides he’s run out of words that would indicate his frustration in a civilized manner. Then you’ll find that I can get right down in the gutter like everyone else. Now if this is a family member of Joe’s who wrote this I will be a little patient. If not then I think the situation requires a more direct approach. Since you, like many others, can’t find the spine or the courage to sign your name to your post it’s a little difficult for me to distinguish your identity. Frankly with that type of language it would be somewhat of a giveaway as to the type of person I’m responding to. I’m curious though. Do you go around calling complete strangers mother effers? I’ll bet you don’t have the balls to do it to their face. Rather than perpetuate your attempt at justification for Joe I’m just gonna wait for an apology. Be sure and post it here so that we can all see it. Bet you don’t have the balls.
Dick Tully
Received via email 10-18-06 Dick, The idiot signing Joe Rorchek is hiding behind a fictional tv character from the 70's Loren Green played a fire chief! Probably more a real firefighter than the lame butthole that is insulting you! You have my respect (and many others) for all you did for this local. I believe these new FINO's care for no one but their own ass. Your the past pres., he is a current nothing.
FTP! Fraternally to Dick, and all past, and current members, and oficials..
Received via email 10-18-06 Dick,
What questions?
Joe
Received via email 10-18-06 Oh poor misunderstood Dickey. You might want to re-read the post from 10-17, I copied it for you.
10-17-06 "Oh yeah, one last thing. The ideas that some have posted about your being the next president. In order to be an Officer or Official of this Local you MUST be a member in good standing. Well just for your and the others information, you are a retired member of the IAFF only and you don't even pay that fee, we do." You will notice that this poster points out that you are only a member with the IAFF, not Local 747, therefore it is not possible for you to be an Officer. And yes this poster even points out that your dues to the IAFF are in fact paid by each of us, (this is in our by-laws)so he must have already looked it up. So to recap, you are in fact "an excellent member in good standing". WITH THE IAFF. So call President Schaitberger next time you need something, I'm sure he will let you talk his ear off. Further you once again promise that we are'nt worth your time to try and educate, so why do you continue? Take your pension and your knowledge in that you did'nt know how to change anything and stay in your fantasy land and continue your back-slappin' with the rest of the good ole boy we got ours,retiree club compound you've moved into. I for one am quite pleased with your promise to never step foot in St. Petersburg, but how long will that promise last? Your last promise lasted only +- 30 days. God, does that mean you'll be back for Thanksgiving?
Received via email 10-19-06 Dick,
I would still trade pension plans with you based on the fact that a COLA could increase my benefit HUNDREDS of percent if I live long enough. My father passed away last year after enjoying a military pension from 1969 to 2005. He died making about 700% of what he started out with. I have met firefighters on your pension who's pensions have tripled. Again, it helps to live a long time but I am not willing to expedite the alternative just to beat the system.
The drop plan is a different story, and it looks like you understand the basics. You take your number of years of service, multiply by 3, which gives you your pension figure (25 years X 3%=75% pension). They reduce it to the average of the best 3 years of the prior 5, which generally would (roughly) be a little less than what you made the prior year. Assuming you are "pensionable", meaning you have either reached your 50th birthday, or completed 30 years of service, you can now either retire and take your payments, or "DROP" and stay on the job at full pay and watch your pension checks go into a fund for up to five years.
For many, the drop is not practical, based on their age, or number of years of service. There are a few other factors to consider as well, like social security ( I guess you know we got rid of the offset), and the 7% that we pay into our pension before retirement. In less than two years I will turn 50 and finish 30 years at about the same time. I still have not decided which direction I will go as to retirement.
Again, we have seen some decent improvements, but without that COLA, if I leave at the age of 50 and live to 80, I will be living on a percentage of what I was earning 30 years earlier. I wasn't on the job 30 years ago, but 28 1/2 years ago I started out at $9600 a year. That would not go too far today. The DROP money will help, but not make up the difference.
Still want to swap? Let me know.
Oh, and don't worry about the guys who don't sign their names in here.... it's weak, but it's pretty much the norm. We had a guy say something nasty about one of our medics who had a stroke a while back. I got all worked up and challenged the person, who of course, never responded. My irritation was probably what the asshole that wrote the remark wanted, and he got it. In here if you get pissed, you lose. So write what you want, and know that I admire you for signing underneath what you say. Besides, you are one of the few participants in here who's writing keeps me from looking too longwinded by comparison.
Relax, and enjoy that escalator.
Fraternally,
David Fraser
10/18...Who are you, really? If you feel so,"strong" about Mr. Tully, come on out of your closet! And don't attempt another Joe Rorchek. You have worn that one out brother?? My vote still goes to words from Dick Tully. He was not a member of the good ole boys club. He was/is one of us.. You are obviously Them..Go and call your ole drinking buddy the Bud King, maybe he can get you a job through intimation...? Or pay offs..FTP FTM, and FT-FINO's!
Received via email 10-20-06 Okey dokey.......
Received via email 10-20-06 Wow…..I’m sure I’ve won the title of “Biggest Sucker On The Planet”. And admittedly I deserve it. Someone did a great job of punking my gullible ass and I have to say it was a beauty. I even got up the ass of the person who tried to help me. I apologize for that. I guess I’m so used to being called and asshole that it never entered my mind he was trying to help me. At least I think he was. I had a good laugh out of it just as I’m sure everyone else did. I can’t believe I missed the hint (TV-LAND) in the one post. However I can only offer as an excuse the fact that I never watched that show when it was on. I thought it was asinine and right up there with “The Towering Inferno” in credibility. But I know a good gotcha when I see one and that one was exemplary. Maybe Dave can draw a cartoon of me with a giant hook in my mouth. Kudos to the author. And always keep in mind that I only have the best interest of our profession and specifically the members of our Local in mind in everything I say and do.
Fraternally,
Dick Tully
Received via email 10-20-06 Great synopsis of the most recent bargaining failures on Tuesday. Nice job Mr. Webmaster. Even coverge and clear descriptions of both parties. Very professional and the members should appreciate it.
Webmaster: Thanks!
Received via email 10-24-06 City calls Winnie to have a special meeting? Regardless of what they offer, tell them to shove it in their ass. They've been jerking us around for years, and now they want to iron things out? Up yours Mr. Mayor and Ms. Richarson, I'll take my chances with the city council that just got a 40% raise. Thanks for nothing.
Received via email 10-24-06 I hope that everyone has read the story of the Tampa PD voting down the contract proposal. But most importantly I hope that everyone understands why. Like us, our Police Brothers and Sisters are looking towards the financial futures of their families. No One could have ever guessed the outcome of health care and insurance issues that we have all been subjected to. We must however believe that there is no other time to address these issues than right now. We cannot wait, we must not wait, and we cannot continue to wait for "our friends" in the council/commission seats to give us what we so desparately need. Let's all stay the course and continue to express our concerns and displeasure to our elected Mayor and his cronies. It is time to speak and they must listen. Keep strong and we will come out of this a stronger team. This is not what this city wants to see. They have always lied it their way and can't imagine it any other way.
Received via email 10-25-06 Regardless of what they offer. Tell them to shove it in their ass! Maybe this mental midget should check his history on what we have gotten when council made the final decision. Jeez, god help us.
Received via email 10-25-06 Not to split hairs, but isn't the expression: "shove it up THEIR asses'?" Although it is possible, presumably, to shove something IN someone's ass, historically we tell other's to shove things UP, not in, their asses'. Also, you would need to use the plural "asses'" when offering something for more than one party to collectively shove up more than one (of their) ass(es').
So, you would want to say "Tell them to shove it up their asses'," or "tell HIM to shove it up HIS ass." These are perfectly acceptable. But to recommend to the Union that they tell the city to "shove it up (or "in") their ass" is totally inappropriate.
Don't forget the editor or editors of this site (whoever you (they) are {wink wink, nudge nudge}, are nice enough to allow the occasional minor profanity. Sure we can't throw around the "F" bombs the way we all want to, but god.....t, let's at least try to phrase our profanity properly. Thank you, and I hope you sons of b....es understand that I am only trying to help.
Have a great day, and let's all watch that fu....g sentence structure.
Truly,
Dave Fraser
Self Appointed Mother....ing Answer Man
P.S. The first one of you sons of b......s to tell me to shove it up my ass, will be the least original mother.....r on the entire f...ing
Fire Department. Peace out, and Stay Safe.
Editor: 10-4 on the occasional minor profanity. And why? Because it's
Received via email 10-25-06 DAVE, HOW DO YOU PHRASE SOMETHING IN THE EFFECT OF STICKING IT IN THEIR MANGINA?
Received via email 10-25-06 It wouldn't necessarily be "up" if they were bent over. It would then be "in".
Received via email 10-27-06 In regards to how to best address the mangina issue:
Should you decide it's high time you shoved something either up or in one, let me say that this is an excellent, and fascinating question. Truth be told, it is considered proper to show the same respect (or contempt) for a MANgina that one would show for the more common VAgina.
It was an equally excellent point that should your intended party be bent over at the time of the insertion, he or she would actually be experiencing an INWARD not UPWARD penetration. However, as we near the equator, particularly when facing North, an insertion of this kind into a bent over party is still technically an upward motion.
I know that this is splitting hairs (sometimes literally), but sometimes it's all about the details.
Hope This Helps,
Dave
Received via email 10-27-06 A general observation here, I respect Dick Tully, I actually remember him going over the top of the negotiating table after a Robert Duvernoy(spl) who was one of the then alcoholic city managers main hey boyz. What was that dirtbags name?....Anyway for those espousing that paramedics should make more than lieutenants, I would say check your W-2's, the only guy making less than most lieutenants is the probie.
Received via email 10-27-06 Speaking of whether something is shoved "up" or maybe "in", I understand that the cops are spending over $90,000 for a study that will tell them why everyone is leaving SPPD. (like duhh!?) Anyway keep in mind that the entire yearly capitol improvement budget for fire is only about $40,000.
Received via email 10-28-06 I agree. Dick Tully is good people. A former union boss that was in it for the good of the members.
Dave
Received via email 11-06-06 Reality people. We need a MAJORITY of the council to push the mayor on pension enhancements. The trend in public and private pensions is away from defined benefit pensions. The new federal law on pensions protects pension benefits for EXISTING plans. It also PROHIBITS or RESTRICTS enhancements to underfunded plans. I hope that someone is getting a realistic legal and political evaluation of our chances of improveing the pension at this time. If the 4-5 -6 offer was accepted I would be making 10,000 dollars more next OCT. Meanwhile we stay the course and march like lemmings into the sea. How long do we wait before it is too long.
Received via email 11-06-06 If you got your 4-5-6, you too would have become just another one of your so called lemmings (without any pension improvements). I think we're all witness to the fact that we've broken free from the mold of the past. Trouble now is, some of you are becoming history revisionists, pining for the the days of old and reminiscing about how we 'used' to do it and how good we had it when we signed on the dotted line within 30 days of October 1. That's the same shit that got us where we are today. All of the gains we've made, we made in just the past couple of years.
"How long do we wait before it is too long." Did you go to the Union hall today to find out how long you're going to have to wait?
Received via email 11-06-06 OMG !!! The voice of reason and reality on 11-6-06. Unfortunately logic like that coupled with facts is wasted on this group. And to answer your question "How long do we wait before it's too long", it's already too long. It's way too long.
Received via email 11-06-06 If I got my 4-5-6 and a $10,000 increase over todays wage,I could use it to help fund my and my wife's IRA and take care of my own retirement.
Received via email 11-06-06 "All of the gains we've made we made in just the past couple of years" I must have missed something. I got a pay raise in Oct 03. Since that time I have received 1 raise in the last 3 years and that was a year and a half late.
Received via email 11-06-06 Think beyond the last couple of years. Multiplier change, retroctive to entry (and a pay raise to boot!). SS offset elimination comes to mind, too!
Received via email 11-06-06 I'd like to give a SHOUT OUT to all of my 'peeps' at Pinellas Park Station 36. I just got through visiting with them this afternoon and the Union spirit burns strong within them. Their Union has had a reputation of fighting the good fight - while working for a lame duck fire chief who they couldn't chase off - not to mention a succession of city managers who were hostile towards labor
This is why we fight!
Received via email 11-07-06 Some news from the real world... I recently spoke with Kevin McConn. He reports that St. Pete Beach City Council is getting ready to vote on a 4.0 multiplier for their Firefighters. They'll have to pay an additional 3% contribution to get it, but it looks like a go. Kevin also reports that if you can - leave! Life's too short to be working for a city who'll fight to keep every last dime from your grasp!
Meanwhile, back at Rancho Cheapo (St. Petersburg) we drag on with impasse proceedings after another unproductive year of negotiating (us - not them) for nothing with a city who's afraid to even 'allow' us to contribute more to get more, because they're afraid the city won't attract new firefighters.
Helloooooooooooooooooooooooooo... lemme' clue you city smart folks in. YOU'RE NOT ATTRACTING NEW BLOOD DOING IT "YOUR" WAY. WHY NOT TRY IT "OUR" WAY?
Received via email 11-09-06
No pay reflecting that of a FD of the 4th largest city in the state. (like others have)
No COLA. (like others have)
No longevity. (like others have)
No time & a half for 'all' hours worked in overtime. (like others have)
No multiplier above 3%. (like others have)
No retirement based on hours 'worked'. (like others have)
No 48 hour work week. (like others have)
No support from city council. (like others have)
No negotiating with anyone charged with the responsibility of actually negotiating! (like others have)
When Karen Richardson says that we can't have 'this' or we can't have 'that' because paying an additional percentage makes our deptartment less competitive --- I agree!
So stop f***king around and "give us" what others got for next to nothing years ago, Karen!
Received via email 11-09-06 IMPASSE. Is anyone working on that problem? It will take a lot of hard work to prepare for the hearing and we better have our ducks in a row when it happens. This won't be some walk in the park with the ability to return to the office and lick our wounds. This will be the decision that will determine whether or not we are right in our demands and our tactics or if the city prevails on their actions. There's a lot to do and a long period of time to cover. Impasse isn't supposed to be a tactic. Impasse is a result. The supposed result of collective bargaining that hasn't resulted in an agreement. Impasse is the last thing in an attempt to secure an agreement between the parties. It shouldn't be treated lightly nor should it be thrown out in a manner such as it has in the past. If we're at impasse then we need to really focus on what comes next in that matter. The petty bickering and cheap shot entertainment needs to stop and we all need to focus on the next step in the collective bargaining process. We called impasse and now we need to back it up. Or again look like fools who want to win but just don't know how.
Fraternally and for educational purposes only,
Dick Tully
Received via email 11-09-06 I will be getting a pay raise. Who else is in? Follow me and get out of our local. I need to support my family and the union isn't satisfying me!!
How 'bout you grow your own balls and be the first one out? If the water looks good to us, we'll join you. If it doesn't, don't worry about what we think of you - as we will have already forgotten that you ever existed.
Wow we get to pick new R days. Who is this suppose to apease. I am now getting f**ked out of my Jan R-day which would of been the 1st of Jan. Thanks alot who ever came up with this idea.
TEAM: The city likes us to call it an "R" Day. We need to start calling it what the rest of the fire service calls it... a Kelly Day. It doesn't cost anything and it obviously upsets Karen Richardson!.
Received via email 11-09-06 Kelly who? No, I like R-Day better. R is for Relief as in the Relief of not having to put up with the bullshit for that 120 hour time frame. Now multiply that by 8 and you get 960 hours of pure bliss. But if it upsets KR than I guess I can live with it being called whatever you want.
Received via email 11-09-06 If she's so upset, let her and the rest of the city employees work a 52 hour work week instead of a 40. Can anyone think of any job in the US besides ours that are screws you out of 12 hours overtime every week of the year? 52 - 12 = 40. Add those numbers up over a career and see how much we are getting it in the shorts. Quite a bit my friend, quite a bit !
Received via email 12-14-06 I realize the pages with factual information quite frequently get passed over when the site is visited. But the webmaster of this site has provided some very informative and pertinent data to the members and it would appear that no one is bothering to take advantage of it. On this very site you will find a subject entitled “SURVIVAL”. Here you will find information of the sort that will instruct and inform those who find themselves at impasse relating to the bargaining process. By clicking on “SURVIVAL” you will be taken to another page which lists the different subjects relating to the Florida statutes. By clicking on the title “Statutes and Constitution” you are taken to a drop down which offers the title “View Statutes”. Click on this title and you are taken to a page offering all of the Florida statutes in effect at this time. Scroll down the page to Title XXXI Labor. Click on this title and another page will appear. Scroll down to Chapter 447 under Title XXXI LABOR and there you will find the subject Labor Organizations, Part1 and Part 2. Part 1 is titled General Provisions. It deals with Definitions, Rights, and other items pertaining in general to the formation of a union by public employees.
Part 2 is titled Public Employees. This part of the statute deals with, to name a few, the formation of the Public Employees Relations Commission, Employer Rights, Employee Rights, Grievance Procedures, Prohibition of Strikes, Unfair Labor Practices, and Resolution of Impasse. There’s some really good information contained in this section. Especially relating to impasse. You remember impasse don’t you. The leadership has called for that twice in the last thousand and some days of negotiations. And unfortunately commenced to piss down their leg both times.
While the membership was being primed for another well intentioned but dismal failure by parading up and down the sidewalk in front of city hall the impasse process was being ignored and set aside. Either we ARE at impasse or we aren’t at impasse. No where in the statute will you find ANY dialog on so called “informational picketing”. It’s not part of the collective bargaining process. And just who is being “informed” by this process? The public? There’s no way to inform the public about the situation. All they see is the fire fighters are whining again. It’s fun for the members but a totally worthless exercise in futility. The City Council? They are being educated on a regular basis by those who have their ear. That’s not us apparently. Who’s left to educate? No one. And that’s why “informational pickets” are a total waste of time.
Now there’s always the possibility that the mayor and council will see the desperation portrayed by the rank and file parading up and down in front of city hall and take pity on them and call for an emergency meeting to solve the whole problem all at once or………it’ll be business as usual and there won’t be any change in the situation whatsoever. If that happens I’ll be two for two.
It’s time to fish or cut bait folks. We need to find a way to resolve this and soon. It’s been way too long and nothing being done. I really do hope that the tactics being currently employed will work in our favor and a resolution will be found soon. However I’m also realistic enough to know this probably won’t happen with the current mind set. If we’re at impasse then let’s be at impasse. Get to work on following the law. Get a labor attorney that knows what the hell needs to get done. One who’s been in the process before and knows the ropes. Read the process and begin the process of impasse found in the statute.
However if we’re at impasse in name only and are using it as a stalling tactic we need to change our thinking. If we have no intention of proceeding with the lawful resolution of impasse as described in the law then quit hiding behind it and admit that we don’t KNOW what the hell we’re doing and the only way to appear competent is to repeat the same ploys over and over. The next step is to take out an ad in the Times explaining our plight to the uncaring masses known at the “public”. This will also be a total waste of time and unfortunately I’ll be three for three.
Again, Information only…….
Respectfully and Fraternally,
Dick Tully
Retired
Received via email 12-14-06 Thanks to channel 10 news and the team members that provided them with the info. I was impressed with the content of the story.
Received via email 12-15-06 The only team seems to be Winnie, who gave explict instructions on the rule sheet to act like robots and keep your mouth shut. Finally I agree with Tully, are we at impasse or what. Sh** or get off the pot these informational pickets do seem like we are whining. How about showing some footage where a guy blows his head off within a foot of our brothers at #13. Before you ask I was at the informational "whining" picket. I am not signing my name because I will be labeled a "them" for talikng about this process like this.
Received via email 12-15-06 Hey Dick, leave out some of the detail, it gets boring ! Get to your point quicker ! Some of your views have merit, but spare the blah blah blah !!!
Received via email 12-15-06 These retirees sure get cranky when they dont get a raise. See why these COLAs are a bad idea?
TEAM: The 'prior plan' retirees enjoy an escelator clause. If they had a COLA, they'd all be on auto-pilot right now!
Received via email 12-16-06 Is that a FF who thinks COLAs are a bad idea? Dude, a COLA is not a soft drink. Grow up and get a clue. A COLA is the best and only way to stay on top of inflation in later years. Yeah it may not look good now, but in later years you will more then wish you had one !!!!!!
For all intents and purposes, a COLA and an escalator are about the same thing. A COLA is theoretically tied to a cost of living index, but is usually a previously negotiated flat percentage rate. An escalator is tied to the salary of current employees, which in turn is generally tied to the cost of living anyway. So, in essence they are pretty much the same deal. Am I wrong?
Joe
TEAM: The same - only different!
Received via email 12-16-06 So, Mr Tully, you are either a FINO and have the ear of the Mayor and therefore holding back important information that we could all use or you're speaking out of your ass again. I went to the info site that you suggested and I as one of the unskilled and unknowing - can't find the Blatant shortcomings you suggest. How about a little help? I guess if this local would have gone to impasse a little more often during the past 35 years we would not now find ourselves so far behind the eight ball. The current leadership is bargaining for the many shortages we will be faced with in the not to distant future. And unlike past presidents - the phrase of fu** you to the retirees is not part of the lingo spoken in today's office. Unfortunately this causes a greater cost on each item we are seeking and therefore makes it that much more difficult. We don't want to find ourselves bitching in a few years that we haven't had a COLA in 10 years or that we haven't received a raise because there is not a current contract. I guess you should have seen to that back when you were in charge. But I guess it is easier to place blame then to accept that you were a cause of it.
Received via email 12-16-06 I doubt that in the history of the local has there been a period where we got so little for so long a period of time. The current leadership is doing a terrible job and we are suffering for it. We need to change our tactics or if they wont, then change our leaders. I am fed up with the excuses and fingerpointing. Other bargining units have got contracts and we need to get our act together.
Received via email 12-16-06 I would be ver careful of our new council member. Herb Polson Is a snake in the grass. He is a back stabber and has a difficult time keeping his stories straight. And so you all know. I do not think council is going to give what we want. They are a rubber stamp for the mayor. Point in fact. His law firm represents the lenders for all the condos. HMMM He gave money so Leslie would run and win. He TOLD council to appoint Herb Polson. Oh and there is more. Why doesnt somone do a police check on one of the members. You might find something very interesting that has not been in the paper.
Received via email 12-16-06 "I doubt that in the history of the local has there been a period where we got so little for so long a period of time."
Thanks for your words of engouragement, Chief ________!
I'm not sure what period of time you're making reference to, but a contract of some sort is always available to you. If you were one of the many who filled out a union survey a few years back, then your vote is safe with us! You were one of the many who said that you wanted REAL change. You wanted some reforms in both your pension and benefits plan. If you haven't noticed, this city's management is pulling this city apart at the seams. Nearly 100 cops have already left the job this year. We're no longer vying for the pick of the litter medics. Council pretends to be public safety conscious. The mayor and police chief keep the citizens of this city in jeopardy, 24/7.
"The current leadership is doing a terrible job and we are suffering for it." I agree. The mayor and council don't give two shits about you and me!
"I am fed up with the excuses and fingerpointing." Oooohhh... man in the mirror moment coming!
"Other bargining units have got contracts and we need to get our act together." Yup! The most comparable contract is that of the cops. They've got a contract that doesn't even come close to that of Tampa, HCSO or PCSO. They've got a contract, but I'm not sure of the wisdom behind getting theirs by some sort of self imposed deadline. I would ask 'them' if they think 'they' had their act together. I think what you're failing to miss here is the fact that we're in control of this situation, even when it doesn't feel as if we are. I'm sure that there's a psychological phenomenon that we're dealing with and it's the same one that the squaws at the League of City's looks forward to. "Divide and conquer" has been in a lot of Generals play books since the beginning of time. Are you going to be the one to divide us?
Received via email 12-16-06 That does it. I no longer give a shit about retirees on the old pension plan. They are the sons of bitches that let the city change the pension for new hires, then made fun of the new guys for taking the job. Ask anyone that came on in the 70's, they will tell you. The old guys mocked the shit out of the new hires for taking a pension that was the old guys fault in the first place. Sorry if you are not getting a raise this year, old timers. If it makes you feel better your last raise was bigger than the new pension is committed to during our entire retirement. The only retirees that deserve the unions help are those that got screwed by the old timers and are on the supplemental plan.
S.W.
Received via email 12-16-06 "The only team seems to be Winnie, who gave explict instructions on the rule sheet to act like robots and keep your mouth shut."
My guess is, you could have spoken to the news media at any time. Others have done it in the past. In fact, Winnie has encouraged it. The one thing that none of us want to see is some one of us on TV not knowing exactly what our talking points are. Nobody wants to see 30 seconds of good air time wasted on a mixed message! If you hadn't noticed, Winnie spent a considerable amount of time with the Channel 10 reporter. He was offering lenghty background info and forging a relationship with our hometown TV station's reporter. Fire Station 13 protects their TV station and the people in it. While Channel 44 is just around the corner, they no longer have a news program. Ten seconds of pissing and moaning does not a relationship make, so please stop feeling like a second class citizen. Our bargaining unit is revered amongst others in the city for being the strongest willed. We'll prevail if you'll stop thinking about what's best for you -- rather what's best for us!
Received via email 12-18-06 To the 3rd post for 12/16. Just like we all have heard before....If you think you can do it better then do it!" Have you put your name in the hat before for president, VP or secretary? Probably not. What would you do different? I think if you are that opinionated you must have a better idea in mind. If so, get out there and get heard. If not, thanks for you opinion now it is time to move on.
Received via email 12-19-06 To Joe's question about the similarities between an escaltor and a COLA. Other than they both provide additional funds in later years, they are not the same thing. With a COLA the increases are usually capped or agreeded to be a certain amount year after year or on a CERTAIN schedule that is agreed to by the bargaining parties and only after the proposal has been costed out by the pension plan actuarty. The reason for this is to make sure there is enough money in the plan or if additional funding needs to go into the bank through an added cost to you or by a graceful offering of the City. Now, after all that the pension plan knows where it stands and has no worries about the future. HOWEVER, with the escaltor that the old retirees have, the pension plan (you and me) must absorb any cost that was not figured for way back in the 40' and 50's. Do you think they figured 3,4,5,or 6% raises back then? I am certain the answer will be no. They paid 3% or less contributions or less and now we pay 7% and will possibly be faced with future increases to help pay for the shortcomings of such a plan. So you can see that they are not the same.
Received via email 12-20-06 The post on 12/19 is right on target. The majority of the retirees on the prior plan are in their 70s, 80,s or 90,s. Very soon we will see a drop in numbers that will be a boon to the pension fund. We need the numbers crunched by an actuary as to what combination of contribution reductions and pension enhancements can occur when this happens. If we are not prepared to argue this with good numbers the windfall will all accrue to the city.
Received via email 12-21-06 To 12-20, Not so fast my friend. The retiree's have spouse's and they tend to live 5-8 years longer. So don't start planning that windfall just yet.
Received via email 12-21-06 Real nice. The brothers arent even dead yet and you are ready to count the money. I bet your parents feel real secure when you're around. What? The Kool Aid tastes funny, Mom? Just drink it and take a nice nap......
Received via email 12-22-06 The better off the pension fund is, the less money the city has to contribute. If the numbers on the prior plan dwindle, that money can be used to scale back our contribution and/or to enhance benifits. If we ignore this then the balance of the lower city contibution will go in the general fund and the cost of enhancments will then appear to be additional cost.
Received via email 12-27-06 What is going on with the contract? Why are we not playing dirty now? I mean who would let their kids be around that criminals family son. Heck he should have been convicted also. We should have backed Ford. Where did it get us backing that moron. Why are we not in front of the mayors house? Like the uhurus? Why do we not team up with them. You do not have to like them. But the old saying. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Think about it. We both have the same interests that we do not like the Mayor. We cannot strike. But, I believe they can help us. In fact there may be some people on the dept that are in their group.
Received via email 12-27-06 Dude! You need to go back to school to learn some things about proper sentence structure and the use of punctuation. I don't have a clue as to what you're talking about. Try Engrish.com, why don't you!
Received via email 12-27-06 It is abvious you are not educated in grammer and structure and the use of verb turning into nouns. It is called normalization. If you would like a lesson I would be more than happy to provide one for you. It is you that needs to go back to school so you can be properly educated. Also if you are so educated, I am sure you know about referentialism invloving sentence structure. Or maybe this is too advanced for you. Most likely it is a DC reading this and cannot understand this.
Received via email 12-27-06
1. Received via email 12-16-06 “ So, Mr Tully, you are either a FINO and have the ear of the Mayor and therefore holding back important information that we could all use or you're speaking out of your ass again. I went to the info site that you suggested and I as one of the unskilled and unknowing - can't find the Blatant shortcomings you suggest.”
Response to Number 1. Since you want to make it personal I’ll only say this; you sir, and those who think the same way you do, are the very ones who keep this Local in the dark ages. Think about it moron. I live in Blairsville, GA. Do you honestly think the mayor of St. Uhurusburg comes up here to tell me his plan when it comes to dealing with the firefighters?
If you think I’m speaking out my ass AGAIN I would like to point out that WE STILL ARE AT IMPASSE AND NO ONE IS DOING SHIT ABOUT IT!!! I’M APPARENTLY THE ONLY ONE WILLING TO ADMIT THAT THE EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHES. THE REASON WE’RE STILL AT IMPASSE IS BECAUSE NO ONE KNOWS WHAT TO DO NOW THAT THAT CARD HAS BEEN PLAYED. TALK IS CHEAP AND NOWHERE IS IT CHEAPER THAN AT SPF&R. TALKING OUT OUR ASS IS ALL WE DO. IF WE KNEW WHAT TO DO NEXT WE WOULDN’T BE IN THIS MESS.
And I won’t even give your assessment of me being a FINO a response. What an asshole you are.
It’s interesting to find you are able to define yourself as “unskilled” and “unknowing” since those are perfect adjectives for your abilities. Of course now that the standards have been reduced to qualify for the job of firefighter you actually had a prayer of being hired. Oh, that’s right, it’s the cops that are reducing the standards so that any pre pubic mental pigmy can get hired. Ah, that’s alright. It’ll only be a short time before it’s implemented on SPF&R.
2. Received via email 12-16-06 “That does it. I no longer give a shit about retirees on the old pension plan.”
Response to Number 2. It’s about time. Now if we could only get the other 250 some skells on the job to feel the same way we could get on with what’s important.
Happy New Year and let me know when the full page ad is gonna be in the Times. I can’t wait to be three for three.
Fraternally and willing to sign my name,
Dick Tully
Received via email 12-27-06 To Mr. Tully, I guess you know what you are talking about. It appears we are all walking in the hand me down shoes worn by our previous leaders. I guess the biggest reason that we are doing so badly, is because of the lack of teachings by our previous leadership.
Received via email 12-27-06 How ignorant and dumb is that person that beleived that Mr. Tully wrote that. The only dumb ignorant people I know are the Officers and DCs that were promoted under Callahan. But It was not Tully. You all really need to get an education and not rely on what is spoon fed to you. I had such great hopes for some firefighters.
Received via email 12-27-06 Third 12-27 sed, "It is abvious you are not educated in grammer and structure and the use of verb turning into nouns. It is called normalization. If you would like a lesson I would be more than happy to provide one for you. It is you that needs to go back to school so you can be properly educated. Also if you are so educated, I am sure you know about referentialism invloving sentence structure. Or maybe this is too advanced for you. Most likely it is a DC reading this and cannot understand this."
Dood! Besides the odd half dozen spelling and grammatical errors, combined with the fact that you know nothing about 'text normalization' - you shooda said,
It's obvious that you are neither educated in grammar nor sentence structure or in the fact that you've been mistakenly using verbs in the place of nouns. That practice is called 'normalization'. If you would like a lesson, I would be more than happy to provide one for you. It is 'you' who needs to go back to school so that you can be properly educated. Also, if you are so educated, I am sure you already know about 'referentialsm', involving sentence structure. Maybe this concept is a bit too advanced for the likes of you? Most likely, you are a DC who is reading this with little understanding of your errors.
While both paragraphs (mine and yours) are fraught with (your) factual inaccuracies, your use of my rendition might have prevented you from looking like 'half' of a total douche bag.
"...referentialism" I rest my case!
Editor: Need a job?
